Ouch Podcast #79 – December 2011
bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast

Presented by Mat Fraser and Liz Carr 

mat	Have you got your tree up yet? It's getting close to Christmas and this is the first of two podcasts we're putting out before that big day. I'm disabled man Mat Fraser who in bare feet stands at six feet tall, quite big for a disability person. But the biggest man of disability right now in showbiz land is little - ooh can I say that - I'm saying it anyway, Warwick Davis who at 3'6" is not all that big at all but is the star of the big BBC comedy Life's Too Short. And our Vegetable, Vegetable, or Vegetable quiz has a seasonal outing this month. And also later we'll be joined by our Paralympics man, Tony Garrett, because it's almost 2012, yes London 2012. Of course spelling out possibly the end of the world if you believe the Mayan calendar. But it's also possibly, and possibly not, why we're going to be doing some crafts on the show, which as you can tell and it says on the script listeners, I'm really looking forward to. So do stay tuned, listeners. 
[Jingle: It's the Ouch Talk Show from the BBC at Christmas with Mat Fraser and Liz Carr.]
Except of course it's not with Liz Carr because she's not in the studio at the moment, she's been a bit poorly, hopefully will be joining us on the phone later. But listen guys, it's Christmas and I'm all alone and they say don't leave people alone at Christmas especially the old and vulnerable and the disabled. Can someone come in and join me please? I need somebody. Come on guys, don't leave me alone on Christmas. I'll have to sing that song. [Singing] Trying to... oh right. Hey, Emma, it's lovely Emma Tracey listeners. Our beautiful assistant producer and thankfully my Christmas friend. 	
emma	Hello everyone. 	
mat	Ah. Hi Emma, thanks for coming to visit me at Christmas. I've been awfully lonely without you. 	
emma	You're very welcome. I've brought James as well with me. So he'll stay in the background for now. 	
mat	Access worker James, hi there James. Looking good with your specialist earrings there. He's got great earrings, listeners, for those of you who are visually impaired, and indeed can't see through a podcast. Emma?	
emma	Yes.	
mat	What's going down? What do you do at Christmas? Oh hold on a minute. Do the Irish celebrate Christmas?	
emma	Yes we do. 	
mat	Really? 	
emma	Yes.	
mat	Do you have a tree and what do you have on the top is it a leprechaun or somebody in a balaclava, what?  	
emma	A fairy. One of the little people.	
MAT	One of the little... Ooh one of the little people.	
EMMA	Hm. 	
MAT	I'm sorry I don't know why I said it in my comedy Irish accent that's offensive. One of the little people. You stick a dwarf on top of your Christmas tree isn't that a bit old fashioned?	
EMMA	No we put a fairy on just like you do. 	
mat	Right. 	
emma	We've pretty much adopted all the English British Christmas celebrations except we have ham with our turkey instead of chipolatas and bacon and stuff. 	
mat	Because you know my girlfriend is, Julie's American, banging on about Thanksgiving all last week, utterly meaningless to me a Brit, do you care what Thanksgiving is? 	
emma	No. 	
mat	I know we have American listeners so we have to pretend to care. 	
emma	Well no it sounds like a great holiday and I don't think Americans take too long off for Christmas so I think Thanksgiving's their big hurrah isn't it? 	
mat	It is. Certainly she wasn't looking the best the day after, I have to say. But they'd had a great big turkey. Apparently they did a turkey at Thanksgiving and then they have a goose on Christmas Day. 	
emma	Oh just like in Dickens. 	
mat	Just like in Mr Dickens' time, that's right. 	
emma	That's what Tiny Tim had for his Christmas dinner.	
mat	Oh no I'm going to cry, I mean Tiny Tim. Now look craft it's all about craft. Liz has given us a load of craft stuff and I'm looking at you, you've got your hands on all this craft stuff, you've got the glitter pens, you've got the baubles, you've got the stickers that say Merry Christmas, you're actually fingering, as we speak, a golden phrase that says Merry Christmas. You've got cards, rather cruelly if I might say, from the production some of them are black and some of them are white. 	
emma	How do I tell? 	
mat	And you of course are never going to know which. 	
emma	That could be a game we could take up ten minutes of the show with that, just showing me cards asking me which is white?	
mat	But luckily to save us we've got Liz on the phone right now. Liz Carr are you there? 	
liz	From my sick bed hello! 	
emma	Hello Liz.	
mat	Oh Liz, hiya. 	
Liz	Hello!	
mat	Aren't you brave at Christmas?	
liz	Mat, I'm incredibly brave all year round, not just at Christmas. 	
mat	You are but because it's Christmas you're braver. Now are you being looked after there? Do you have someone to prop your pillow up and hold the phone to your ear and stuff?	
liz	Yes and I'm cuddled up in my Christmas blanket. 	
emma 	Ah!	
liz	And I'm sitting here with a little headdress on that's got some holly on.	
mat	Now listen we're going to get onto the crafts. So, Liz, what do we do? We've got all this stuff in front of us, a somewhat ill equipped team to make cards, some would say, although those in special education might disagree. 	
liz	No this is the easiest but the funniest Christmas card, you're going to make Christmas cards, Mat, okay?	
mat	We're going to make Christmas cards Emma, okay.	
liz	And what they are is you're going to make Christmas cards with your thumb print. 	
mat	Oh ha, ha, ha. 	
emma	Oh that sounds easy! 	
mat	Oh hello it's another stitch up Matorama is it?	
liz	No, no. 	
mat	No I have... 	
liz	You don’t have to use thumbs!	
mat	Do I need to remind you?	
liz	You can use any other body parts. 	
mat	Right then I will. Something...	
liz	You could use your little flippers.	
mat	... that gives a definitive print yeah. 	
liz	Absolutely. 	
mat	To remind the listeners I have no thumbs it being a prerequisite condition of being a thalidomider, no thumbs, Mr Fliddy no thumbs here. So Emma's got thumbs, she's got blind thumbs which are better than normal thumbs. I've got no thumbs. What do you suggest I use that has a specialist imprint? 	
liz	Well two suggestions I have. Of course at Christmas time you often get those charity Christmas cards by the foot and mouth painters. 	
mat	Yes you do. 	
liz	So you might want to do a footprint. 	
mat	Okay. 	
liz	Failing that, like I say, I think as disabled people instead of, you know, thumb print we should imprint those crippled bits of our bodies. 	
emma	So my eyes then Liz? 	
liz	I'd actually be using my extra large kind of rheumatoid arthritis looking knuckles. 	
mat	And I'm going to put my ill equipped but monstrous flippers. 	
liz	So what you're going to do you're going to find the ink pads you should have red and green and white all those lovely Christmas colours. 	
mat	Well I'm watching... this is... I'm watching - whey-hey oh dirty thumb already. 	
emma	We've got our ink pads out Liz. 	
liz	Yeah. And take a card so you've got... 	
emma	Any a card, pick a card. 	
liz	... a ready folded Christmas card.	
mat	Okay you've got.... 	
emma	Do you want one?	
mat	I've got a white card Liz. 	
liz	Okay. 	
mat	I'm ready to go. 	
liz	What I want you to do is you've got your ink pad and you're going to put that body part, you're going to put your thumb or whatever on the ink pad and then you're going to press it against the card. With the idea of making that print into an image. So let's say you put your thumb into the sort of the browny one. 	
emma	Which I'm ooh!	
liz	From that you could make a Christmas pudding, or a robin or a reindeer. 	
mat	Okay. Emma obviously being blind just picked up a random colour and it's red. I've got three of my flipper fingers... 	
liz	Nice. 	
mat	... on to the brown and I'm dabbing it onto the card. 	
emma	I'm going to go red, Liz, is that okay? 	
liz	I think red's good. 	
emma	Okay. 	
mat	I think we need to bring in a professional here. And funnily enough we have a professional on the line, our very own Julie Fernandez. 	
julie	Hello guys. 	
emma	Hey Julie. 	
mat	Hello darling, how are you? 	
julie	I'm very good, I'm sitting here knitting listening to you guys making cards. 	
mat	Ah. Listeners, to remind you Julie Fernandez is another disabled person who's into crafts. She's into an actress and campaigner and friend of Ouch, she's been on the show lots of times. Now listen, Julie, I understand you're knitting away listening to us making frankly rather a hash of our first Christmas cards.	
Julie	Christmas cards!	
mat	But you have a craft shop. 	
julie	I did in August of this year my friend Sarah and I ended up opening a craft shop and training centre. 	
mat	A craft shop and training centre with your old mate Sarah fair enough as a new business in frankly difficult economic times, so hats off to you there, isn't a bit old fashioned getting a load of disabled people...?	
julie	It used to be quite old fashioned but we're so lucky now in that just the types of fabric and things that you can get in this modern world that we live in is brilliant. For example, you can get cotton that you can put through your printer it's like A4 sheets of cotton and then you can scan a picture from your computer to your printer and print onto cotton. Then you can put that through the sewing machine. So there's so many exciting things that you can do now. And there's lots of mixed media artists out there that kind of mix up all the different crafts and make really interesting and funky designs. 	
mat	Okay. Wow! While we're doing this I've given Emma the green, she needs more of that green. That's the one to the right of you.	
emma	Oh really? This one?	
mat	More the green. No that's the red. 	
emma	This one? 	
mat 	Okay yeah. And then we're going to need to get glittery, where's the glue we need glue? Liz, Julie, help us.	
julie	I bet they look beautiful. Have you got a glitter pen there?	
mat	Yes.	
emma	We have some…	
mat	James our access worker's just given me... 	
julie	Take the pen take the lid off and swirly whirly all round the card.	
emma	I'm so excited. 	
julie	It's art, darling so it can look dreadful and still be beautiful. 	
mat	Can you open it please? What should Emma draw, Liz? 	
liz	Do you know I think we're lucky if Emma gets anything on the paper to be honest, Mat. 	
julie	How about a star?	
liz	A star well done.	
emma	Okay let's have a go at a star. 	
mat	Listen, Emma, it's more... right this is actually like a tube of toothpaste as I've just discovered.	
emma	So I have to squeeze it. 	
mat	Squeeze it and it comes out, it comes out like glittery, well the nearest thing it's to is bird poo that I can see. 	
julie	In a tube, can you get bird poo in a tube that you can put... that's interesting. 	
mat	You can't. But mine's become somewhat of a three dimensional card now because it has depth. 	
emma	Does that look anything like a star? 	
mat	No! And anyway while we're... Julie?	
julie	Yes darling. 	
mat	How on earth in this modern climate of economic hardship are you making a crafts tools and materials shop work? 	
julie	Well people are really getting into making their own from scratch, their own clothes, their own furniture, their own blankets and throws and curtains and bags and... 	
emma	It's a bit like Kirsty Allsop. 	
julie	Pardon?	
emma	A bit like Kirsty Allsop.	
julie	Yeah exactly. Ah there you are I'm the crippled Kirsty Allsop brilliant!	
mat	I think you're a lot more than that Julie as you very well know. What's your, you know, if there was an eventual goal for your shop what would it be, you know, what would it be?	
julie	Well we have a few actually. We'd like to eventually have three or four shops dotted around the country, and then eventually we'd like to buy some type of hotel that we can adapt and do craft holidays. 	
mat	You know what? That actually does sound very traditionally English and British. 	
julie	Beautiful and you can make lovely... there's nothing nicer than making gifts for people for Christmas, birthdays or, you know, when you've got a pair of trousers that need shortening and let's face it when you're 4'5" like me everything needs to be shortened. 	
mat	I'll ask Warwick. 	
julie	You can do it yourself and not have to keep spending money sending it out to other people to do; or, you know, make your own handbags and wall hangings and curtains and blinds and all these lovely things - brilliant.	
mat	Well that you are so... Julie, hats off to you you're so good at this. But now in trouser shortening particularly interesting because we've got Warwick Davis coming in soon. He's probably you know at his stage in life got people who do his trousers. But if not I'm passing him straight over to you. Listeners, Julie, Liz - bombshell - I'm looking at the two cards frankly my one looks rubbish and totally un-Christmassy and the sort of thing I actually used to turn out when I was a five year old. Emma's is all green and red and sparkly and looks utterly Christmassy. 	
emma	Yeah!!!!	
julie	Of course. Well done, Emma. 	
mat	Who shall we send...?	
julie 	Who are you sending it to? 	
mat	Yeah who are we sending your one to, Emma?	
emma	Oh Stephen Hawking maybe? 	
mat	Let's do it, let's send... what shall we write on it? 	
emma	Oh hang on, Mat, you can do the writing then. 	
mat	Dear Stephen, you dictate. 	
emma	Oh, um...	
mat	There's not a lot of room because... 	
emma	Oh dear Julie and Liz help me out here. 	
mat	Julie and Liz help me dictate the card to Stephen Hawking.	
julie	Dear Stephen.	
liz	You're actually writing the card?	
julie	You know what maybe you shouldn't write it maybe you should send him a little voice file and you can... 	
emma	Dear Professor Hawking.	
mat	I think that might be a little bit inappropriate ladies. Can we go back to the writing? 	
liz	Lovely impression, Mat. 	
mat	Dear Stephen, thank you. 	
emma	Stephen?	
julie	Happy Chrimbo. 	
liz	He is quite formal. 	
mat	Happy Chrimbo. 	
julie	Yeah. Love... 	
mat	Love... 	
julie	Me! 	
mat	Well should I say love the Ouch team? 	
julie	Yeah.	
liz	Yes. Because we've got to get him on the programme so this might be going halfway to getting him on the show. 	
julie	Hasn't he been on the show yet? 	
liz	No. 	
emma	He might think we're like a playschool or something though rather than... 	
mat	Julie Fernandez good point there, now the BBC are listening, we haven't had Professor Stephen Hawking, the real one, we've had many impersonators on the programme. 	
emma	Or one. 	
mat	That is again inappropriate and borderline offensive. Right there's your card. 	
julie 	I wonder he's never been on the show, it's a brilliant show. 	
mat	There's your card, Emma. 	
emma	Thank you. 	
mat	It's ready to go to Stephen. 	
emma	Oh I'm so excited. 	
mat	Mine one is a proper old shower so I'll be giving that to, I don't know, who should I give that to? Who's the Head of the BBC?	
emma	Mark Thompson. 	
mat	Mark Thompson as we very well know is the correct answer, Damon Rose, thank you. I'm sending mine to Mark Thompson from Ouch because it's so rubbish that he'll just think, "Oh God it's that lot from Ouch" and everything will be super. Liz, Julie, thank you so much. Is this... I mean have we come to the end of our craft section of our Christmas... 	
liz	What I’m loving and why I love having Julie on is it's like we can reclaim crafts, you know... 	
mat	This is what I was going to say is it reclaimatory?	
liz	It was day centres and all that rubbish and I've been a secret crafter for years. 	
julie	Are you coming out the crafter's closet?	
julie	Brilliant, I'll join you. 	
liz	Thank you.	
mat	Ladies, thank you for coming out of the woollen closet with your glitter baubles on. Happy Chrimbo, talk to you soon. 	
julie	Happy Chrimbo guys.	
mat	Lots of love. 	
liz	Happy Christmas. 	
julie	Bye. 
[Jingle: Narrow casting to the scroungers, benefit cheats and idle lead swingers of the UK the Ouch Talk Show goes out twice a month, not even on proper broadcast radio but over the internet. Go to bbc.co.uk/podcast click on entertainment and you'll find us in there.]	
mat	In the studio I've still got Emma who's hands are a little bit dirty from making the cards. And we've got our regular Oucher, Rob Crossan. 	
rob	With very, very clean hands. 	
mat	Yes very clean hands and you're clean all over... 	
rob	Sparkling.	
mat	... as usual. You have a wash before you come in which is good. But the exciting news is that in the studio we have as it says Britain's go to dwarf, Warwick Davis. 	
warwick	Thank you very much. 	
mat	All right, Warwick, it's a massive thrill to have you in here but before we go any further. 	
WARWICK	Yes.	
mat	We've just been making Christmas cards like craft style Christmas cards and we've made one for Mark Thompson the Head of the BBC. Now because you're influential we wondered if you would like to sign it?	
WARWICK	Of course I will.	
mat	Also it might help swing the second series. 	
WARWICK	Oh I see, yes. 	
mat	So I don't know if you want to... 	
WARWICK	No it's important to look after the boss isn't it? Shall I sign it on the back because I don't want to ruin the design do I?	
mat	I would say a message certainly. 	
WARWICK	Got to think of something very clever to write.	
mat	Well put it this way - what do you want to do next?	
rob	Just put Hollywood in big letters.	
WARWICK	A chat show. 	
mat	This is Warwick 'chat show' Davis. Whatever you want. 	
WARWICK	Well we'll carry on chatting while I'm writing. 	
mat	I will I'm going to contextualise for the listeners that don't know of your awesome fame, Harry Potter, Willow, Return of the Jedi, The Phantom Menace, Prince Caspian, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, various BBC Narnia adaptations, Star Wars specials, Extras and now Life's Too Short which is the massive new comedy written by Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant of Office and Extras fame of course. Now for those who haven't yet seen it could you describe, Warwick, what it is?	
WARWICK	Life's Too Short is a fictional documentary which follows the life and times of Warwick Davis, a fictionalised version of myself who shares my career background, all of the films that I've done, Star Wars, Willow, Harry Potter etc but his personal life in the series is very different to mine. He's going through a messy divorce, he's got a huge tax bill and his career is on the slide, things are not going well at the point we find him. And he thinks it's a great idea to invite a documentary crew to follow him which will not only put him back on the map and raise his profile again but will also earn him some cash. It's got a lovely arc that runs through the whole of the seven episodes as well. He goes from a point A to point B and then obviously within each episode all sorts of things end up happening to him. 	
mat	Well before we go any further for the listeners, foolish and naive listeners that haven't already experienced it let's have an audio clip. Now times are tough at the talent agency so Warwick decides to have a brainstorming session with his new and quite clueless PA to come up with some new money-making ideas. 
[Playing clip:
Warwick: 	In your own time.
PA:	The company's called Dwarfs for Hire is that 	right? 
Warwick:	Yes it is, yeah, yeah.
PA:	But why do you have to only do acting, 	couldn't you do other stuff? 
Warwick:	Yeah such as?
PA:	Chimney sweep. 
Warwick:	Chimney sweep why am I suddenly doing 	that?
PA:	Well it used to be children didn't it? 
Warwick:	100 years ago yeah.
PA:	But it's cruel to send children up there 	nowadays. 
Warwick:	So it's not cruel to send a dwarf up there?
PA:	No because you're an adult aren't you? Oh are 	you not? Oh I thought you were an adult. 
Warwick:	Of course I'm an adult. But I'm also a 	businessman and I've been in loads of big 	films why am I suddenly running up 	chimneys?
PA:	Well you wouldn't have to run up there I could 	help you up there. 
Warwick:	Right so your business idea is you shoving 	me up a chimney?]

mat	Oh God and I've seen that twice and it's still really funny.	
WARWICK	Thank you.	
mat	First question. Were you able to do this without copsing, laughing?	
WARWICK	No it was very difficult in the scene we've just heard there with Rosamund she's such an amazing actress and so funny, that yeah very difficult to get through. The most problem I had was with scenes that I was working with Ricky and Stephen in because we ended up just trying to make each other laugh and it became like a jousting contest. But 50% of our outtakes were from the scene with Liam Neeson when he comes in to meet Ricky and Stephen and myself trying to do stand-up comedy. And Liam Neeson's such a serious chap that when he starts saying things that are ridiculous and funny you can't help but laugh. And then the more you try not to laugh it's a bit like when you were at school and the teacher said, "No laughing" it made it all the worse. So when cameras are rolling and you're just desperately trying not to laugh and you look at Ricky who's also doing the same you can't help but burst out laughing. 	
mat	Well I mean it might be from our perspective, for want of a better phrase like 'in the disability thing anyway' but I mean I'm and I know all of us lot here at Ouch are loving the comedy.	
WARWICK	Great.	
mat	But traditionally if you try to pitch disability to programme makers they get very nervous. Was there a lot of nervousness at the BBC before this was aired do you know? 	
WARWICK	No I don't believe there was I mean they've been amazing and been totally behind the show. When we first pitched it to them they immediately loved the idea and I think they got it, I mean it's essential that you get Life's Too Short, you know you actually understand where it's coming from and it comes from a good place rather than a bad place. And really what it's doing, the joke isn't really, we're not laughing at me because I'm a dwarf we're laughing at me because of my character, he's got a chip on his shoulder, you know, Warwick hasn't come to terms with dwarfism he doesn't like this although he's made a career of it he's not come to terms with it. So we're laughing at that and the side of his character that is a bit of a monster and ego maniac and we're also laughing at other people's prejudice around him. So I think ultimately the show is portraying a good message which I think the BBC have obviously seen in supporting the show. 	
mat	Now similarly because the dividing line between reality and the fictionalised heightened what Warwick and his Willow Agency I mean you must have been asked that a million times, I totally accept the two things are completely different... 	
WARWICK	It's very blurred the verges on that. 	
mat	... however you do have an agency. 	
WARWICK	Absolutely.	
mat	You know I did once ring them looking for a wrestling dwarf because of a project I was doing. 	
WARWICK	Okay.	
mat	I rang them in late November and they went, [sucking in breath] "What at this time of year?"	
WARWICK	You'll be lucky. 	
mat	"You'll be lucky." And I was like, "Oh is it..." and it was, "Yeah panto" so obviously you do deal with the reality of jobbing... 	
warwick	Of course	
mat	... of performing people with dwarfism.	
rob	How many prank calls do you get per day, it must be a lot?	
WARWICK	No we don't get prank calls but we get confused with an escort agency for some reason. 	
rob	Oh really?	
WARWICK	People somehow flick through, it's always late at night about 10:00 o'clock...	
rob	Sexy dwarfs.	
mat	Have you... 	
WARWICK	No not little people just "Can I have, you're an agency do you do escorts?" And it's like, "No, no that's not what we do." 	
rob	"You've got this wrong on so many levels."	
mat	Exactly. But times are hard have you ever, you know, sent somebody out on that kind of request?	
WARWICK	No, no we try... we're very careful about the work that we take on for people because of course they've sort of trusted us with their career. But there are people that will fulfil that sort of work but they don't work with us.	
mat	Well while we're on the subject, I mean obviously you're not going to send somebody to do that but how I put this, what is a job too far? 	
WARWICK	Well I think being handcuffed to a stag and going out on their do	
mat	A deer?	
WARWICK	No, you know, like a human person stag who's going out on a stag party and the prank that the mates will pull on them is to invite somebody along who's little and then have them handcuffed to them for the whole night through thick and thin and soberness and drunkenness which it would be most unpleasant for the little guy.	
mat	How much do you get for that?	
WARWICK	I don't know I've no idea but I know it happens. 	
mat	Right, okay. But you'd be quite happy to send somebody for a leprechaun job?	
WARWICK	Yes because that's about the performance it's about acting and it's about character and what have you be it in a commercial or a movie or what have you. I played actually, I played eight... nine leprechaun movies I've been in, two good leprechauns and six bad ones, not the movies I mean the character of the leprechauns. Although some...	
mat	That's a good ratio.	
WARWICK	... some people might say that the six were bad movies as well, but it's up to you. 	
mat	Panto - economic crisis have you heard the rumours that people can't afford all seven. And Wolverhampton Theatre apparently has decided... are thinking about hiring children to play some of the dwarfs because you can get them cheaper. 	
WARWICK	Well I mean it is a sorry state really I think. It is a shame that companies are resorting to this. Yeah it is expensive. Snow White is one of the most expensive pantomimes because it's one of the largest casts. Of course you've got your other characters plus you have seven dwarfs who are principal cast members and are paid as such. So yeah for companies having to take those drastic steps to kind of save costs, but I don't think that's where you do it to be honest, I really don't think that's where you cut the costs because people come to see Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, they're in the title. 	
rob	Just cut Snow White, frankly you'd rather see the dwarfs wouldn't you? 	
WARWICK	Of course. I mean beautiful when I... 	
rob	Papier-mâché cut out of Snow White.  	
mat	Get a child to play Snow White, oh no that wouldn't be right. 	
WARWICK	No. But I've been in these shows and the people, you know, normally the dwarfs come into the show at about 30 to 40 minutes into it and the anticipation by then for their entrance is absolutely at fever pitch and so it's a lovely, lovely feeling. And I think there would be that air of disappointment amongst an audience, you know, however good these kids are it's not quite the same. 	
mat	Well you can speak of fever pitch and I think it's quite appropriate because I think once Life's Too Short, this series has finished, the expectation of what Warwick does next will have reached fever pitch. Where are you imagining it going? Is there going to be a second series of Life's Too Short? Are the rumours about you presenting a new panel game that are circling true or what?	
WARWICK	Well I'd love to do another series. It's extremely hard work so I wouldn't go to it lightly this time because I didn't know what to expect last time, but I know quite how hard it is now. But the BBC are very enthusiastic about more. And that's all everyone keeps asking me is when we're going to have more. I think you've got still four episodes to go yet, let's enjoy that and then think about it. But people can't get enough of it. What is next for me? Yeah I'm developing a panel show with the BBC which is, I'm not going to say too much about it, it's called Ace of Clubs anyway, but I'm actually shooting a pilot for that tomorrow... 	
mat	What can you say about it? 	
WARWICK	... in Salford. That I'm the host and I love the subject and it's fun, it's witty, it's edgy and it's exactly what I want to do. 	
emma	It's sort of the year of the dwarf isn't it?	
mat	[singing] The year of the dwarf.	
emma	There's so many dwarf related programmes on the television so I suppose I wondered whether you'd watched them and what you thought of them? And then I wondered whether going forward and into the future after Life's Too Short and that kind of thing would you like to be sort of the dwarfness of you fade into the background and you be Warwick on a panel show that's not about littleness or anything to do with littleness?	
WARWICK	No that's a great question. I couldn't comment on Seven Dwarfs because I didn't see it. I thought Short Works was a really great documentary the BBC did about short actors and the reality of that because of course Life's Too Short paints quite a different version of that, but I think it was very interesting that particular documentary. But you do make an interesting point about me and whether I'm known as an actor or a dwarf who acts or what have you. I started off in this business 30 years ago as an actor in Return of the Jedi but not cast because of my acting ability purely because I was 2'11" and I was the right height for the job. So since then I haven't strived to put that to one side and be known as an actor but hopefully I've honed my craft enough that people more and more recognise me for the acting rather than just somebody who's short who is on telly as it were. But yeah it would be lovely in the future to have other strings to my bow, panel shows and what have you.	
mat	Rob wanted to ask a question.	
rob	I think it's interesting... 	
mat	Wind it in, Emma, come on. 	
emma	I've got the floor now. 	
mat	All right, thank you.	
rob	Well I think it's interesting obviously at Ouch we watch disability themed comedy and we're studying it a little bit more seriously...	
WARWICK	Of course.	
rob	... than the majority of viewers. And I wonder how much of the show you were comfortable with or whether there were things that Ricky and Stephen proposed to you which you didn't like. Because there were elements of the show, some of it there were lots of level of nuance and sophistication and irony and I could see what you were doing. But then there was one scene quite early on where you were trying to jump up to reach a buzzer and you couldn't do it, so you had to get another guy to lift you up. And to me I just thought well I'm laughing but I'm just laughing because you're short, that's not really very clever even though it is funny in a slapstick way.	
WARWICK	I wasn't... 	
mat	A testing question there, what do you have to say, Warwick?	
WARWICK	I wasn't lifted up in that, I simply ask a passerby will he press the buzzer. Now the interesting thing about many of the things that happen in the show they're anecdotal, they're things that have happened to me as a dwarf living my live for 41 years okay? And so that buzzer moment is one of those moments that you can't... many buzzers I can't reach and I have to ask somebody. So I'm talking to Ricky and Stephen about this then all they do is create a guy with attitude coming up to me instead of just being a regular guy who'll happily help... 	
rob	Who's never heard of you. 	
WARWICK	I get somebody who's not only never heard of me which also is a big dent into my huge ego, but he's not particularly helpful and we have to have this big discussion about whether I'm valid enough as a celebrity for him to be able to help me. 	
mat	We have a quiz, Warwick, that we would love you to stay on for, would you mind?	
WARWICK	Quiz, do I have to be intelligent? 	
rob	No more so than us. 	
WARWICK	Okay well that's fine.	
mat	Just be how you've been so far he said diplomatically.	
WARWICK	Okay great. 	
mat	Great. We're not quizzing you, we're quizzing some hapless listener who's foolishly called up on the line. 	
WARWICK	Great.	
mat	So studio, cue the jingle. 
[Jingle: Now it's time for Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable.]
Yes it's time for our inspirational disability game Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable where we get the caller on the line and try to work out what's wrong with them. And on the line today, who I've been told is quite excited that you're still here, Warwick, is James. Hello James. 	
james	Hello!	
mat	All right James. Where are you calling from? 	
james	New York City. 	
mat	New York City wow! 	
james	Yes.	
mat	That's for getting up at what must have been about six in the morning. Anyway listen, would you like to say hello to Warwick?	
james	Absolutely.	
WARWICK	Good morning, how are you? 	
james	Good morning, how are you? 	
WARWICK	Fine thank you, good to talk to you. 	
james	Good. 	
mat	All right now, James, you know the way it goes. I want you to tell me what you like to do for Christmas but don't give away your impairment. 	
james	Okay. 	
mat	What do you do? Do you celebrate it?	
james	Yes I do. 	
mat	What do you do at Christmas, James?	
james	Let's see I help... I do volunteer work. 	
mat	Excellent. What do you do to the goose? 	
james	Let's see I cook it. 	
mat	You cook the goose, all right. Don't you find it's quite fatty? 	
james	Yes. 	
mat	And you like that?	
james	Not particularly. But, you know, it's all right.	
mat	You know what, let's do the quiz everybody. 	
mat	Okay, so here we go. Can you read this for us?	
WARWICK	Of course I will. 	
mat	Here it is Warwick Davis doing the rules. 	
WARWICK	Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable is a very clever disability interpretation of the parlour game Animal, Vegetable or Mineral. In the game the two hosts of the Ouch Talk Show have 90 seconds to guess what is wrong with the disabled caller on the line by asking a series of fiendishly intelligent questions. The caller must answer only ‘yes’ or ‘no’. It is both classic and therapeutic.	
mat	Wow thank you. 	
rob	Flawless! In one. 	
mat	So that's awesome. So to take part in this intrusive and unpleasant game, James, the rules clearly state you have to be disabled. So, James, are you disabled?	
james	Yes.	
mat	90 seconds and everyone's pitching in. Well Warwick we're going to grill this guy okay? 	
WARWICK	Okay that's brilliant.	
mat	We basically have to find out what's wrong with him. Here we go. 90 seconds on the clock, James, your time starts NOW! Have you got a hole in the heart?	
james	No. 	
mat	Hole in the head? 	
james	No. 	
WARWICK	Are you in a wheelchair?	
james	No.	
rob	Are you bald?	
james	No. 	
mat	Hold on. 	
rob	Chemotherapy. 	
mat	Oh fair enough. 	
WARWICK	Do you have all your limbs?	
james	Yes.	
mat	Can you use all your limbs in a traditional fashion? 	
james	Yes.	
rob	Do you feel unhappy a lot of the time?	
james	No. 	
mat	Are you scared by sudden things?	
james	No.	
mat	Are you scared by nonexistent things? 	
james	No.	
mat	Are you scared by existentialism? 	
james	No. 	
rob	Are you dyslexic?	
james	No.	
WARWICK	Are you average height?	
james	No.	
mat	Ah!	
WARWICK	Are you a dwarf?	
james	No.	
rob	Hey! 	
mat	What's the other short ones?	
rob	What's the opposite of a dwarf?	
mat	A giant.	
rob	Are you a giant?	
james	Absolutely not. 	
mat	Well why are you weird height. 	
rob	How can you be not average height and not dwarf and not a giant?	
james	I am average height yeah. 	
mat	Oh you are I see just wasting our time.	
rob	Lampooning. You lampooned us.	
emma	Come on, come on, come on.	
rob	Have you ever had a blood transfusion? 	
james	No. 	
mat	Muscular dystrophy?	
james	No. 	
mat	James, James, James.	
rob	I felt he let us down the garden path there a bit don't you?	
mat	Yes I'm not going to say 'cheat' because that's not allowed, but you did an Agatha Christie on us didn't you? 	
WARWICK	He did that's true.	
mat	You told us one thing was the case and then right after at the end you told us another thing was the case. Still Americans play by different rules it would seem. 	
WARWICK	I'm intrigued though to find out, James.	
mat	Yeah what is it?	
rob	Put us out of our misery?	
mat	Spill the beans. What's wrong with you?	
james	I have ADHD.	
mat	You have what? [repeating: ADHD] That explains the lying! 	
rob	Please can we make the jingle stop? 	
emma	Do you like that, pass me the ritalin	
rob	Was that your idea?	
emma	Might have been. 	
mat	It was very witty. 	
james	I also happen to be a playwright. 	
WARWICK	Are you? 	
mat	Nice one.	
rob	Which is more of a financial disability. 	
WARWICK	Excellent. 	
james	I'm sort of well what do you mean by financial disability? 	
rob	Well playwrights are notoriously skint like journalists. 	
james 	Well yeah it is sort of a financial disability I'm still in college.	
mat	Okay, so James, if there's one question you wanted to ask the infamous Warwick Davis what would it be? 	
james	Yeah. What was it like working with Daniel Radcliffe? 	
WARWICK	It was fantastic actually. Dan's a terrific individual and actor and one of the things I most remember about him is just the way he motivated everybody. You know we were doing long, long days on Harry Potter... 	
mat	Who, just for some of the listeners who may not know who he is, who's Daniel Radcliffe? 	
WARWICK	Daniel Radcliffe plays Harry Potter. He is Harry Potter. And he'd motivate the whole crew and keep everyone going and be grabbing cups of tea for people so really just an all round good bloke. Have you been to see him on Broadway? 	
james	Yeah, no I haven't I'm seeing Alan Rickman in about two weeks. 	
WARWICK	You're seeing it or Alan Rickman did you say? 	
james	I'm seeing both. 	
WARWICK	Oh both of them. What's Alan in at the moment then?	
james	Seminar. 	
WARWICK	Oh right, Yeah, terrific!	
mat	Right, okay. Guys we've got to move on, I'm really sorry. It's been lovely listening to your... 	
WARWICK	Cheers James.	
mat	... little lovey chat at the end there. What's Alan doing? Warwick come on! 	
WARWICK	Well you know. 	
mat	Thanks James, you're a trooper. Good luck with the playwriting, good luck with the disability. Good luck with New York City. Bye.	
James	Bye. 	
WARWICK	Bye. 	
emma	I have another question for Warwick, can I ask him a question?	
mat	We don't have time, Emma, I'm afraid you're going to have to ask the info@warwickdavis.com website or whatever you've got. 	
emma	Dot org.uk.	
WARWICK	Warwickdavis.co.uk and .com.	
mat	He's covered them all just in case.	
emma	It's all covered. 	
WARWICK	You won't get me through warwickdavis.org.uk you'll get a plumber in Chepstow. 	
emma	Ah!	
WARWICK	Or you won't even get a plumber in Chepstow actually which has disappointed a lot of people. 	
emma	Yeah I can imagine so. So am I really not allowed to ask my question? 	
mat	Oh go on, is it quick? 	
emma	I interviewed you a few years ago, Warwick, [snoring in background] and you said one of your biggest hobbies was caravanning.	
WARWICK	Yes.	
emma	Do you still do that and are you planning on making a reality TV show with you and your family going around in a caravan?	
mat	Five word answer please.	
WARWICK	Yes I still go caravanning, I just went this past summer all over the UK - love it it's a great, great way to have a holiday. 	
mat	And there we have it. All right, so sorry Warwick it's been a total honour, you're a gent and a scholar. Good luck with the rest of it. 	
WARWICK	Thanks for having me on I love the podcast. 	
mat	And Life's Too Short is available to see on BBC2 at 9:30 on Thursday evenings and if you miss it you can of course go to the BBC iPlayer. 
[Jingle: You can listen, download or subscribe for free to our show by going to the BBC's main podcast site at bbc.co.uk/podcasts, when you get there click on entertainment and look for Ouch Disability Talk Show.]
Paralympics is where sports meets soap opera apparently. And our Paralympic man is here to wheel us - get that - through some of the latest happenings. Hello Tony Garrett again. 	
tony	Good to see you guys. 	
mat 	Thank you. And here, with Emma, as you can see we've been crafting, we've been making Christmas cards. What kind of cards do you like, do you like the homemade type?	
tony	I like the homemade type but also the funny ones, the ones that... the light hearted ones where Santa Claus gets stuck down the chimney and the mistletoe's not going the right way. So a bit of entertainment, a bit of humour. 	
mat	Entertainment and humour listeners is what we do even when we're talking about Paralympics. Now we're looking forward to getting into the meat of this. We're going to talk about classification in a minute which turns out not to be nearly as dull as it sounds, listeners. But the big news in the last month has been judo and you've been following it Tony. Now we touched on it a bit last month but can you just tell us how judo fits in, who plays it and how? 	
tony	Absolutely. It happened just a week or so ago it was the European championships for visually impaired judo throwers and it was held in Crawley, West Sussex, it was the last big event for the judo squads and all the players ahead of 2012 to win medals and hopefully get selected for next year's Paralympics. 	
mat	And it's only visually impaired people that are playing it, is that right? 	
tony	That is correct. 	
mat	Okay. So those are the European championship is where the drama kind of mainly started. There's been a drama hasn't there because Lesley Reid has been disqualified.	
tony	Absolutely, Mat. Basically what's been happening, the European championships in Crawley have just taken place. The last chance for Britain's judo players to compete and win medals at 2012. And one of the big stories that happened just before the start of the championships was that there's been some new categories, some new classification for the judo guys and the girls, and as a result one of the unfortunate things is that one of our top judo players, Lesley Reid, has been declassified. So we've got Lesley on the line, Lesley, what actually happened on the Wednesday, Lesley? 	
lesley	Well I did the sight tests and they said it wasn't within the parameters which I knew it wouldn't be because my... There's two different sight tests that they do; one's for acuity and that's being able to see the numbers on the chart you know a regular eyesight test you would normally do at your opticians. 	
mat	Right. 	
lesley	And then there's one they call field tests where you look into the thing and you have to click the buzzer every time you see the little light appear. So I had always known that my acuity was outside the parameters. So I did the test and they said, you know, it's not within the parameters. And I said, "Yeah I know that." And so we did the field test and I was very surprised that the field test results came back and she said I was actually normal. 	
mat	Wow. But I mean commiserations, Lesley, that's tough on any competitor. That must make you feel pretty bad though right? 	
lesley	Yeah I suppose so. I'm very sad because I wasn't thinking about the Paralympics until about a couple of months ago really because I've been training for two years but it was always too far away to think about. I'd only just really started looking forward to it. 	
mat	And you've now just been told that you're not blind enough. 	
lesley	That's right. 	
mat	You used to compete 20 years ago as a judoka is that correct but you retired and then you picked up judo again as a disability sport in your late 40s.	
lesley	Yes.	
mat 	And so you've been training thus for two years only now to be disqualified. That is hard for anyone.	
lesley	I feel really bad that loads of my friends have bought tickets and they only bought their tickets to see me, they're not really interested in judo, so I feel really bad about that. 	
mat	Tony, what's your take on all this? 	
tony	As we've just touched on it it's very difficult for Lesley, I mean I think this is one of the flaws of Paralympic sport. You know someone like Lesley who'd been training really hard for the last couple of years, everyone was happy and convinced, talking to the judo Great Britain squad they weren't expecting it to be a big issue, so it's been a big shock. And as I said, Lesley, I know you work fulltime, you've got a family, you'd put big hopes into this so I do understand for you it must be a major disappointment. But are you relieved in a sense that the decision was made now as opposed to on the eve of the Paralympics? 	
lesley	Oh yeah absolutely. I mean I was about to take a sabbatical from work so thankfully I've been able to cancel that. 	
mat	And you're not going to appeal then? Is there no opportunity for review of appeal or anything? 	
lesley	I don't know nobody's spoken to me. 	
tony	Well I can update you just briefly just a little bit on that, Lesley, because over the weekend we did have... I did have a conversation with the President of IBSA because we wanted to ask these questions and I believe there was eight judo players that unfortunately all came to the same... a decision was made for all eight of you and he did say that that decision is final, as far as the 2012 Paralympics are concerned and there won't be an appeal. They've made their tests they've gone through everything very carefully and there won't be any chance for an appeal, which is really bad news. 	
mat	Okay so you... 	
lesley	Thanks for letting me know. 	
mat	Well thanks for telling Lesley.	
tony	I'm surprised... Lesley, I'm surprised I know from a British judo point of view that they are continuing to look at options and they're continuing to look at things but that's all I can tell you from an interview that we do with the President of IBSA. 	
mat	Well thanks for letting us know as soon as possible but really sorry to have to tell you that on air, Lesley. 	
lesley	It's all right, I hadn't expected anything. I had kind of accepted the fact that I wasn't going to be in the Paralympics. 	
mat	Okay well I mean I hope that you're going to still continue to be a judoka still practise and still help other people get into the sport. 	
lesley	Well I'm planning to do the British Championships in January. 	
mat	Oh great!	
lesley	That's going to be the proper full sighted 16 plus and I'll be 50 when I do that competition. 	
emma	Wow. 	
lesley	And I won a bronze medal there 1986 so it's my goal to have a 26 year gap and come back and win another medal. 	
mat	Wow that is incredibly impressive and very good luck to that, Lesley, and thanks ever so much for coming on and talking to us. Tony, she was told she's not blind enough, used to compete 20 years ago then retired. She's picked up judo again as a disability sport in her late 40s but doesn't this flag up a question about the eliteness of... we're all meant to be told no it's not therapy it's professional sport doesn't this kind of fly in the face of that a bit? 	
tony	It does. It's a slightly strange one in a sense of we haven't got a lot of judo players, we certainly don't have any female judo players and with Lesley now being declassified unless there's somebody that just comes through from the outside, which is unlikely, we won't have a female lady player at the 2012 Paralympics. And I think we're in a situation of... We're finding certainly less people at 49/48 playing competitive sport. A whole reason for that it has got to a lot more elite level. But I think we still will find in a number of sports in shooting is a good example, where we still will have a number of athletes around, you know, late 40s early 50s and I think that will be in shooting. And I think it's in the odd Olympic sport as well when you look at Commonwealth Games. But it's odd, it is odd. 	
mat	We've got Simon Jackson who's a retired blind judoka on the line now. Hello Simon are you with us? 	
simon	I'm with you yes, three times Paralympic champion. 	
mat	You've heard what we've been talking about, what's your take on all this Simon? 	
simon	Well let's backtrack a little bit. All Paralympic athletes are elite sportsmen and in judo they're all elite judo players. I won three Paralympic golds I was actually reserve for the full Olympic team in 1992. That's the sort of standard that the Paralympic judo is at. 	
mat	Right.	
simon	You've got a Russian guy called Orlei Kretzel who went to the full Olympic Games in Sydney, a year after he had a car crash now he's in the Paralympic games. So let's not downgrade elite sport in the Paralympic judo. I can't speak for other sports but I can certainly speak for judo and everybody who competed at Crawley and everybody who competes in 2012 will be an elite sportsman.	
man	Okay. And I totally accept that. What's your opinion about the whole Lesley Reid debacle? 	
simon	I've just heard the interview with her and I was a bit surprised actually that she knew she was going to fail the eyesight test. It sounded a bit... that's a little bit strange, from my point of view to be honest with you. But they've changed the parameters, they're starting to test people more vigorously so I hope that's now going to be rolled out across the Paralympic sports and there should be more people you know being ineligible who are ineligible really. Because now that Paralympic sport has got to a level where there's more kudos involved in Paralympic sport, people are going to try and get in who shouldn't be in. I'm not saying Lesley's one of those because she's had numerous eye tests over the last couple of years and passed them all, it's just that they've changed the parameters and she falls out of that, you know, out of the parameters. But we do need to get serious about it, it is elite sport. People are doing everything they can to be involved with it, so you're ineligible, you're ineligible. 	
tony	One of the things that's very interesting is that the Great Britain judo squad are doing a lot more training with the able-bodied squad which is happening across, quite a few Paralympic sports, but quite clearly the British judo players seem to be moved up a level or two with the additional training and competition with their able-bodied colleagues, Simon?	
simon	Yeah definitely. You've got Ben Quilter who won the 60kg category, he got gold. And you've got Sam Ingram who won the 90kg gold, both European champions. They both train, Ben trains in Dartford with the full Olympic team, and Sam trains up in Edinburgh with Billy Cusack who's an ex-Olympian and they've got a lot of internationals up there. So the boys are fully integrated with the sighted squad. Because judo's tactile I always used to train with fully sighted people. I trained with the British team. And judo lends itself to train with fully sighted people.	
mat 	Simon, I totally agree with you I am wrapped and psyched about the judo, it's something I've always loved, as a martial artist I love to watch it. So thanks for telling all our listeners about it. 	
simon	Sorry to interrupt, just go on my website then judo.jackson.com there's loads of footage and stuff about me on there. 	
mat	That wasn't at all a plug from Simon Jackson and okay mate, thanks ever so much for coming on the line and talking to us. Cheers mate. 	
simon	All the best.	
mat	Bye bye.	
simon	Bye.	
mat	Wow it's all getting... I love the way that you come in Tony and we get another update on it. There's a momentum gathering.	
emma	It's gripping, it's gripping!	
mat	I know it's gripping.	
tony	Really good weekend in Crawley at the judo, some great results for our British competitors including gold medals for Sam Ingram and Ben Quilter. So they both won gold, they're going to be both in prime position to try and repeat that next September. 	
mat	I love a bit of a scrap. I love watching it. I cannot wait. But, Tony, what other sport and events are coming up early in the New Year? 	
tony	Coming up very shortly is a demonstration event of goalball. 	
mat	What is that?	
tony	Well goalball... 	
mat	Goldball?	
tony	Goalball. 	
mat	Oh goalball okay.	
tony 	It's one of those visually impaired sports that's only really relevant to the Paralympics. 	
mat	Okay like boccia or something all right yeah. 	
tony	And goalball is played by two teams of three visually impaired athletes in an indoor court with two goals at either end and the aim of the competition is, the ball has got a bell in the middle, is to score a goal by rolling it past the opposition's goal at 60 miles per hour. 	
mat	And what does the goalie do have to leap towards the noise?	
tony	I mean basically the players are laying on the floor and they've literally put their bodies in line to stop the ball going past the goal line. So the goalkeeper is going to get this ball coming at them at a fairly rapid speed and they've got to stop it going over the goal line. That, in a nutshell, is goalball.	
mat	That is something I can imagine the BBC Ouch team having a goalball team, Emma and Damon. How are the British team doing on that one then? 	
tony	The British team need a bit more practise. They had a European championships fairly recently, didn't do quite as well as they would have hoped, and certainly not as well as the British Paralympic Association would have liked. So basically there are three sports, three squads which is sitting volleyball for women, which we talked about last month. And both the men's and the women's goalball teams British Paralympic Association won't make a decision until February where they are going to put teams at the 2012 Paralympics in those sports. 	
mat	Wow so we'll find out about that next year and we'll see you next year, Tony, because this is our last one for 2011. Ooh it's getting close. 	
Tony	Getting close, nine months or so to go and we're really starting to look forward to it. 	
mat	Wow well that's it for our Christmas warm up show. Thanks Emma Tracey for being in here with me and keeping me company. 	
emma	No problem. 	
mat	It's been lovely. And of course thanks to the rest of the team, Daniel Slipper and studio manager Neil Pemberton and the producer was Damon Rose. But that's not it for 2011 though, no our Christmas quiz hosted by housewife's favourite albino, Mr Rob Crossan, will be up on the site and ready to listen to from around December 15th, just as you're all starting to get a bit Christmassy and merrier maybe. And now we're leaving you with a bit of a treat today, yes the Open Arts Community Choir from Belfast have recorded something especially for us. You may remember them from the BBC1 competition Last Choir Standing. Disabled not disabled they are a diverse bunch and very talented and they've recorded this song especially for us, it means Rejoice in Latin but you know it as Gaude Te. Goodbye. 
[Playing music]