Ouch Podcast #74 – July 2011
bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast

Presented by Mat Fraser and Liz Carr 

liz	Thank you for downloading us. We're the UK's only disability talk show and Mat's here to tell you what's on this edition.  	
mat	Are we really the only one? 	
liz	Actually I don't think we are but it sounds good. 	
mat	Yes it does and we're probably the best one. Friend of the show comedian Laurence Clark is on at the Edinburgh Fringe next month. He joins us later to tell us how he tried to sell the NHS to the yanks. And even later than that it's learning disability meets glee, yeah we're joined by The Kids of Widney High on the line from LA. 	
liz	And more chat besides. You can find us on Twitter@bbc.ouch if you want to follow us we're on Facebook too please be our friend, well, carer or guardian might be more accurate. 
[Jingle: From the BBC in London it's the Ouch Talk Show with Mat Fraser and Liz Carr.]	
mat	I love working with you, Liz, I do. 	
liz	Why?	
mat	It's the best job in the world. 	
liz	Best job in the world. 	
MAT	Hey I could be working in a biscuit factory. Well I could have applied to work in a biscuit factory and then been denied work because of my ill equipped flippers not reaching the biscuits. But we digress before we've started. 	
liz	Why a biscuit factory? 	
mat	Well would you prefer me to work in a shoe factory, Liz? 	
liz	No. 	
mat	Would you? 	
liz	No, probably no factory although I'm not saying that working in a factory is bad I'm just thinking the idea, the concept of you working in any kind of proper job, to be honest. 	
mat	I once almost had a voiceover job for a biscuit firm, didn't get it. Anyway...	
liz	Thank you for te--... 	
mat	Like I say best job in the world. 	
liz	Best job in the world. 	
mat	Radio gold my friends. 	
liz	But working you know doing the sort of thing you do, the life you live abroad a lot of the time, you work abroad... 	
mat	I do. 	
liz	... you travel abroad and here.	
mat	I do. 	
liz	So do you have one of these kind of... do you have like a I can't say iPhone or other such android phones or whatever they're called, those sort of things... 	
mat	Yeah do I have a Smartphone? 	
liz	That's the one. Do you have a phone where you can do everything on?	
mat	That reaches for me?	
liz	Yeah. 	
mat	No I don't have a phone that reaches for me. Are you talking about specialist equipment?	
liz	Very loosely. 	
mat	Okay. Because I do have one thing. As you know in my late night job which is more cabaret involved, I sometimes have to quickly get out of one costume and quickly get into another costume and there isn't always another performer you know ready there. I have the all thalidomide wonderful travel suction hook which is where you lick it and you stick it onto a wall, yeah. You press the clip and it provides suction and there's a hook that either points up or down and I use that to get things off and get things on again. And I actually need it for quick changes. 	
liz	Where did you get it from? 	
mat	I got it from thalidomide central, it's a place that we go. 	
liz	Is there a shop?	
mat	Yes but it's only available to us people. No basically they're gadget shops. 	
mat	It is very useful to us but I dare say you'd find that useful. 	
liz	You see I've been thinking a lot there's things that we use and that are really... that make life much easier for us as disabled people that I think the non disabled world have started to get a hold of and use and they've become almost trendy. Okay, so I want to show you a picture of what I'm talking about. Look at that! Now, listeners, what I've got... well you describe. 	
mat	Well okay. It's a guy, a seemingly able-bodied guy, who in his left hand has a map of London, an A-Z and his right hand has this Smartphone and on his nose there appears to be this beaky thing that appears to be tapping the phone as if a finger, a sort of a nose finger. 	
liz	Absolutely. 	
mat	Is that what it is? 	
liz	Isn't it look bonkers okay? 	
mat	He looks like a weird bird. 	
liz	It does. Or Pinocchio or something like that that's what the guy looks like. And he's invented this thing where because if your hands are busy and you've got a phone that you need to tap that he thinks that if you have this thing, stylus he calls it, that protrudes from your nose then you can do whatever, hold a coffee with your hand and a phone with the other hand and tap on it with its nose. Look we've got disabled friends who have those pointy things on their foreheads to tap away at their communicators or drive their chairs from, yes? 	
mat	Yes or write a book. 	
liz	Or write a book. Socially, you know, unacceptable, you know people would like I wouldn't like to be seen dead with one of them most people yet but now...	
mat	But they're really functional for a lot of people but now suddenly they're trendy. 	
liz	Suddenly it's okay to have this thing, this stylus coming out from your nose or your forehead if it's about using a phone. And I just think we've had these years and they've not been trendy and this is just the beginning because when you think about it... 	
mat	Oh yeah. 	
liz	...Yeah? Okay well let's take your basic, your crip gripper stick. 	
mat	The grabber? 	
liz	The grabber. 	
mat	I've got one. 	
liz	Yeah and everyone uses it. I've just been away on holiday, people were lifting up rubbish using it, people were cleaning areas you know in parks they use them. 	
mat	Yeah you often see them in sweet shops as well. 	
liz	Really? 	
mat	Yeah. 	
liz	And then I was thinking about Japan and these toilets, have you seen these toilets that do everything?	
mat	I know again old news for thalidomiders? 	
liz	Yeah, really? 	
mat	Yeah well what are you going to do if you've got no limbs? 	
liz	Oh okay of course. 	
mat	It's easy to expel the waste material but everything else needs taking care of. 	
liz	We've had this conversation. 	
mat	And sometimes, you know, when somebody else isn't available the technology can help. 	
liz	Yeah. And so over here you have an occupational therapist assessment, you get all that malarkey and they agree it, you can get one of these £4,000 but 'special needs' in inverted commas - listeners, don't worry I'm not going soft on you -toilets that does everything. 	
mat	That washes and dries. 	
liz	That washes and dries your bum. In Japan it's a social, you know, it's almost all the toilets for everyone have that. And now they're being sold to like LA and Hollywood as the ultimate thing to have in luxury. 	
mat	I see what you're saying. So we are, by default, our gadgetry is becoming trendy. 	
liz	Yes. 	
mat	Wow! Well that'll be interesting. The first thing I think is no because that means those travel hooks that I spoke about are going to get just more expensive. That's the thing. 	
liz	Well they'll glamorise them won't they, and that'll be it. 	
mat	Oh but I'd like a blinged up one. It could be a bit scratchy when I'm doing my pants but apart from that I'd like a diamante covered one. I could imagine that. 	
liz	You see. But maybe it won't because often you have this thing you know that I know we've talked about it before on the Talk Show that often when you call something special and it has the disability price tag and all that you can double/triple it. 	
mat	Yes. 	
liz	Because there's a very small market or because charities or private organisations are buying them for you, they often put a high price tag on disability equipment. So if they become mainstream will they become cheaper? Or if they become mainstream are they becoming luxury mainstream items? 	
mat	Well you know if they become so popular that they become mass produced then the price should drop shouldn't it because the competition, but then again like you say if they're new and trendy they'll be more expensive. 	
liz	The things are about making life easier aren't they? 	
mat	Yes. 	
liz	I don't know if you've heard of these things... 	
mat	What is there? 	
liz	Well like, they're called a possum over here. So it's like a console that you have it's an environmental control thing, so you either speak it or with one button your curtains can open, the TV can go on, the light can go on, the door can open. 	
mat	Like in science fiction? 	
liz	Kind of yeah. 	
mat	"Door, open!"	
liz	Yes absolutely. They exist. 	
mat	"Computer, make the door open." "Alright, Matthew I will" like that? 	
liz	Yes absolutely. 	
mat	Wow. 	
liz	So it's kind of like are we getting to a point where either disabled people have them or very rich people have them because it's a kind of a status thing. "I'm not getting out my chair, I'm too rich to do that, door open" do you know what I'm saying?  	
mat	What else is there? 	
liz	What about the Segways have you seen those things? 	
mat	Yeah I can't use one because I have to lean forward so much I'm worried about just falling flat on my nose or off a cliff. 	
liz	But I'd like to see... So these are like the sort of, God you describe it, you've been on one or tried….	
mat	How to describe a Segway - well okay imagine, if you will, a seemingly able bodied person about to step onto a small platform six inches from the ground that is about the size of a skateboard but with the wheels on either side pointing in the same direction. Up from which comes a column, a stem, if you will, from which there exudes at waist level two handles. And you grab onto the handles, you stand on the platform and then you kind of... I think it's like done with magnetics or... 	
liz	I don't know. 	
mat	... centrifuge or some kind of spirography thing, I really don't understand technology, you lean forward a little bit and it scoots off. All the police in Chicago have them, it's really weird watching them glide around. 	
liz	It's like a standing up wheeling along thing. So really if you use a wheelchair then fine that's one thing, but if you can't be bothered walking then you have one of these Segways as if it's the same...	
mat	Do you know any disabled people that use a Segway? 	
liz	No I'd love to see... I think it's only a matter of time before disabled people start using the Segway. 	
mat	I think it should be a Paralympian sport. 	
liz	Segway racing. 	
mat	Segway racing. 	
liz	Segway charging. 	
mat	Yes Segway slalom. 	
liz	Like jousting. Going at each other. 	
mat	The Segway Games, it's a whole games in itself. 	
liz	Other stuff that I've used yeah so you know I've talked to you about this before I know I have a love of theme parks, despite my brittle and fragile appearance and the fact that I could snap at any moment.	
mat	It's very brave. 	
liz	Yes it's very brave and I'm taking my life into my hands I am. 	
mat	Well done. 	
liz	But they hurt because I haven't got much flesh on, I'm very you know, I'm thin. 	
Mat	I'm sorry. 	
liz	So it really hurts. So I've been looking for a way I need almost a theme park suit like one of those sumo suits, the blow up sumo suits, a padded suit to wear. But I just went to a theme park recently and I didn't have a suit but I wanted to go on a couple of rides that were going to hurt me. So what I did is I bought a couple of those neck bandages, you know the neck collars for people?	
mat	Yeah. 	
liz	When you've done your neck in?	
mat	Yeah.	
Liz	Okay. And tied them around each leg where just behind the knee where it hurts me on a seat. 	
mat	Success? 	
liz	I just looked ridiculous and I couldn't... to be honest I can't tell you whether it was successful or not because I couldn't get my trousers on over them.	
mat	You had to do the ride in your pants is that what you're saying? 	
liz	That's what I'm saying. 	
mat	Wow that must have been... you looked ridiculous because a) you were attracting attention because of your pre-existing disability; and because you had no trousers on and weird paddy things on your knees. 	
liz	I have neck... 	
mat	Neck braces on your knees. 	
liz	I had neck braces around my thighs so I couldn't get my trousers on. 	
mat	Wow!	
liz	And I couldn't wear shorts because that would have looked ridiculous.	
mat	Of course that would have looked silly, but in your pants you're fine. 
[Jingle: You can subscribe for free to the Ouch Talk Show by going to bbc.co.uk/podcast. Click on the entertainment category and you'll find us right there. Then tell all your friends about us, every single one of them, plus your family and everyone on your side of the street. If you don't then you're not a proper fan and we don't want you listening. Message ends.]
In our Liverpool studio we have friend of the show Mr Laurence Clark. Hi, Laurence. 	
LAURENCE	Hi Mat.	
liz	Now we've got you here we want to talk about your Edinburgh Fringe show that's coming up. 	
LAURENCE	Oh great. 	
liz	We're going to talk about that. Congratulations, you've just become a dad. 	
mat	Again. 	
LAURENCE	I have yeah six days ago. 	
liz	Oh wow so taking these few minutes to do the interview, precious time at the moment. 	
mat	Can you remember sleep?	
LAURENCE	Yeah well fortunately, for me anyway at the moment, all baby Jamie wants to do is drink milk and I can't oblige him. 	
liz	I can't help see a link between new baby and you doing the whole month of Edinburgh Fringe though Laurence, a nice escape there. 	
LAURENCE	Yeah it was a kind of in the sort of pre-conception agreement. 	
liz	And through all this you're all being filmed for a TV documentary. Tell us a bit about that? 	
LAURENCE	Indeed. We're being filmed for a documentary.  It’s about 50 minutes about me and Adele and our family, how we kind of...	
mat	Adele your wife for the listeners. 	
LAURENCE	My wife yeah, how we manage our support, all the stuff around the birth, how we manage being new parents. 	
liz	In the last show, Laurence, we had Bev and Jas Burkitt yeah in - I can't think of the name of the programmes - Small Teen Big World.	
mat	That's right, fly on the wall documentary about disabled people.	
liz	That's out. And so a similar thing they were followed round for months with a film crew. Do you think it's the fashion accessory for disabled people these days to...	
LAURENCE	It could well be. It kind of puts... although they go into... they're not really there you're meant to ignore them, get on with life etc inevitably when you walk around being constantly followed by a tall woman with a camera it does tend to affect how people react to you. So this time with the hospital, with the birth, we were treated really, really well and we didn't have any of the attitude problems... 	
mat	You mean they were on their best behaviour? Sorry, do you mean they were on their best behaviour because the telly people were watching? 	
LAURENCE	Oh my God yes. Oh my God yeah. 	
mat	But Jamie is your second kid wasn't it like that for the first kid?	
LAURENCE	Not at all. We had one person told us we were being irresponsible for not having screening tests.	
mat	Well quite right too. The last thing we want is more disabled people in the world. 	
LAURENCE	Exactly. It was just lots of general stuff around not talking to us and sometimes talking to our parents above our heads whenever they came. 	
liz	So was that your main reason for doing it, Laurence, to get better treatment? I mean why...	
mat	Whatever it takes right? 	
LAURENCE	It's a lot cheaper than going private. 	
mat	A lot of this ties in though to your new Edinburgh show doesn't it? Your working with the NHS, you're experiencing the highs and lows of the medical treatment that you get in this country but your show is about what you might get in America isn't it? 	
LAURENCE	Yeah but my show is it's about healthcare and it's about the sort of possible dangers of privatising healthcare or as David Cameron says, "having more competition".	
mat	It's called 'Health Hazard' is that right? 	
LAURENCE	Health Hazard yes. 	
mat	Are you a health hazard in America? 	
LAURENCE	I attempted to get healthcare insurance over there just so rang various insurance companies, gave them my details and it's amazing how that conversation turned when the words 'cerebral palsy' enter it. And we secretly filmed these conversations and they're edited together in the show. 	
liz	What did they say when you would ask them, you know, for cover and that you had CP, Cerebral Palsy?	
LAURENCE	A lot of them said... a lot of them were just, "Sorry we can't help you, we don't cover this condition." One of them told me to phone back in four years. 	
mat	What! Why? 	
LAURENCE	When some sort of piece of legislation that's gone through that hasn't been acted upon yet will come in which will mean that I think it will be easier for disabled people to get insured over there. But yeah I thought they were meant to be good at customer service but four years is...	
mat	So am I... is the thrust of the show then that moan as we might, and goodness knows the British public do like to moan about the NHS, moan as we might, actually we don't know it but we're very lucky is that what you're trying to say? 	
LAURENCE	Yeah not just the British public but disabled people... 	
mat	Especially disabled people.	
LAURENCE	Yeah. We have our fair share of moans about the NHS as well but I mean while I was over there as well as recording the comedy stunts I made a short film as well and talked to a lot of disabled people on camera and some of the horror stories around them getting stuff that we would really take for granted over here were quite an eye opener. 	
liz	So what kind of thing like wheelchairs and prosthesis or stuff like that. 	
LAURENCE	Yeah wheelchairs, controversially cochlear implants, all sorts, aids equipment but just I mean they have Medicare which is like a sort of actual scheme for disabled people there, but it's very much a kind of a second class thing. 	
mat	I was going to ask... 	
LAURENCE	A lot of doctors won't take it because it pays a lot less.	
mat	So disabled people even if they have got Medicare get treated badly in America is that what you're saying? 	
LAURENCE	From the people that I interviewed and just when... I went on ADAPT did a march to the White House. 	
mat	ADAPT who are they?	
LAURENCE	The Direct Action Group of Disabled People in the States.	
mat	That's right like…	
LAURENCE	I sort of followed them as we marched through the streets of Washington, and then as they were sort of throwing themselves in front of police, in front of the White House I was there with a microphone in the background trying to get interviews. But when I describe things like self directed support, like personal budgets it was like I was talking about the promised land, it was just in that they're quite far away from.	
liz	So their social care there having support and personal assistance at home they just don't have, generally they don't have that support that we have in the UK yeah?	
LAURENCE	Yeah and very much they have a bias in the way their funding system works towards nursing homes, residential homes. It seems to be a lot more prevalent, a lot more common for disabled people to live in those places over there just because of that bias within their system. 	
liz	And quite a topic to then transform into comedy which is what you're doing in your Edinburgh show. 	
LAURENCE	Oh my God yeah. It looks great on the funding bit.	
liz	That's why you're doing it, okay. 	
LAURENCE	When you sit down to write the jokes you're like oh my God this is actually really serious stuff. 	
liz	And how is it relevant, how do you relate it to what's happening here in England at the moment with the NHS?	
LAURENCE	Another thing I did over there was just a vox popping, interviewing people on the streets, and the dirty word 'socialism' comes up again and again when you mention something like the NHS. And people kept saying, you know, "Who's going to pay for it?" So I think that's a question that we're getting more and more over here and we're hearing more and more talk around introducing more competition, introducing more sort of private sector companies into delivering healthcare. I would say if you do that, you know, it's going to move more and more to be around profit and disabled people on the whole aren't going to be all that profitable because we need things done differently or we may need a lot of healthcare treatments. So by and large that's what kind of concerns me and that was part of the reason for making the show instead of preaching about it to actually go to somewhere like America and show what the consequences could be. 	
liz	Show the pitfalls. 	
mat	I hopefully can't wait to see the show. So let's, conceptually as it were, move up to Edinburgh, there's quite a bit of crip stuff going on in Edinburgh this year; you've got Chris McCausland, blind comedian, at The Pleasance Courtyard with his Big Time Show. We've got our very own Francesca Martinez with the 'What the - you know what - is Normal' at The Stand Comedy. And Steve Day with 'Run, Deaf Boy, Run'. And then there's your show - are you going to have a bit of a time up there with your crip buddies?	
liz	And there's theatre up there as well. There's Turandot which is like - it's all very impressive - it's a Puccini opera and it's deaf non verbal. 	
mat	Ooh!	
LAURENCE	Wow!	
liz	I know it's not just the stand-up stuff. And something I've never heard of this before. 'Funny as a Crutch' is the show by RAMbunctious Theatre which is a disability group from America coming over to do some...	
mat	Sketch comedy apparently. 	
liz	... sketch comedy and stuff. So lots of fantastic stuff up at Edinburgh. We wish you the best of luck. Where are you going to be and your show is called 'Health Hazard'.	
LAURENCE	It's 'Health Hazard' and I'm at the Underbelly at 6:40pm every day the 3rd to the 28th of August. 	
liz	Fantastic.	
mat	But not the 16th of August for some weird reason.	
LAURENCE	Not the 16th. 	
liz	Well Laurence great to talk to you. Good luck with the show, with the new baby... 	
LAURENCE	Thanks. 	
liz	... and everything that's going on and we look forward to seeing you on stage or on our screens soon. 
[Jingle: If you have a question or predicament that's burning a hole in your brain and you'd like us to help then email the show now ouch@bbc.co.uk that's ouch@bbc.co.uk if you don't you might explode - fact.]
Over to Los Angeles now and there in the studio on Sunset Boulevard we have six members of The Kids of Widney High. Hello!	
mat	Hi!	
all six	Hello!	
liz	So let's see, let's try and do a name check here, who've we got? We've got Peewee. 	
Peewee	Yes. Hello. 	
mat	Cain?	
Cain	Me here. 	
liz	Hey brilliant. Tanesa? 	
Tanesa	Hello.	
mat	Tony?	
tony	Yes sir. 	
liz	Alica?	
alica	Hello. 	
mat	And their teacher Michael Monoghan is that right? 	
michael	Yeah Monoghan. 	
mat	Oh Monoghan I'm sorry.	
mat	So please guys, one of you start, tell us about The Kids from Widney High? 	
cain	We started in 1988. 	
mat	Pretty old then. 	
cain	Yeah pretty old but I'm not the original one but it started in a high school called Widney High School. They started with that - what was that song called - New Car and from there they just went up. We even did a tour? 	
liz	And how many of you are there in the band? 	
cain	We got eight of us. 	
?	There are pretty much eight of us like just the students like eight of us. But we do have like our own band and it's going to be a little more. We have Michael too. 	
liz	Okay. And you've had your albums - I love it - you've had 'Act Your Age' 'Let's Get Busy' 'Special Music From Special Kids' I really like that, and you've had songs covered by the Yeah Yeah Yeahs is this true?	
mat	Wow!	
?	Yes it is true.	
liz	How did that happen? 	
?	How did that happen Mike?	
michael	I have absolutely no idea. 	
mat	Nice handover there.	
?	We just do things, we just do things. 	
mat	Now is it also true that you've featured in the Farrelly Brothers' movie 'The Ringer'?	
?	That's correct.	
?	Yeah. 	
?	Yes. 	
mat	Was that fun to do was that fun?	
?	That's true. 	
mat	Was that fun?	
?	I've a wonderful feeling there's always old HBO.	
mat	You're still making royalties then? 	
?	I wish!	
liz	And that was... The Ringer that was the film about the basketball...	
mat	That was the film about the person pretending to have a learning disability in order to get into the Special Olympics. 	
liz	Ah. Did you sing in the film?	
?	Well lip synced to two different songs; one was 'Pretty Girls' and the other was our version of 'Respect' the Otis Redding song. 	
mat	Oh lovely. I'd like to hear that myself. Do you think we're ready for the quick fire questions, Liz?	
liz	Yeah I reckon so. Are you ready guys, we've got ten quick fire questions, are you ready? 	
?	Bring them on. 	
mat	Let's do it.	
liz	Okay. We're going to start with Cain. Lady Gaga or Adele?	
Cain	Lady Gaga. 	
mat	Peewee, burger or salad?	
Peewee	Vodka. 	
liz	Tanesa, if I didn't live in California I'd live in...?	
Tanesa	Somewhere else. 	
liz	Somewhere else like...?	
Tanesa	I would live in Hollywood.	
liz	Ah I see. It's still in California but it's a great place.	
mat	You just can't leave the sunshine state can you?	
liz	It's the best state. 	
Tanesa	I will go to Hawaii. 	
liz	Nice.	
mat	That's more like it. I love her baby. 	
liz	Thank you. 	
mat	Tony, if you starred in your own TV show what would it be called? 	
tony	The Adventures of the Good Looking Stud. 	
mat	Wow! Okay. 	
liz	You've thought about that one before haven't you? Alica, Harry Potter or James Bond?	
Alica	James Bond.	
liz	Thank you. The thing I like to do most in the world..., Cain?	
Cain	I like to listen to music. 	
liz	Perfect. 	
mat	So, Peewee the person I would like to most do a duet with is...?	
Peewee	Stevie Ray Vaughan	
mat	Oh right, good choice. 	
liz	Tanesa, suit or a t-shirt?	
Tanesa	T-shirt.	
mat	And now one for Alica, TV or the internet?	
alica	Internet.	
liz	And Tony, people who like The Kids from Widney High also like... 	
tony	Marilyn Manson. 	
liz	Marilyn Manson. 	
mat	Oooh!!!	
liz	Oooh! Who we have it here in our notes apparently Marilyn Manson's a bit of a fan? 	
tony	Yeah. Mr Brian Warner.	
liz	Really. 	
mat	Wow is that his real name? Okay. 	
Liz	And have you met him? 	
tony	No. 	
liz	You've not met him you just...	
?	You don't want to either.	
tony 	But I would like to.	
liz	You don't want to I heard someone say there. 	
mat	Well I'm very impressed but I think the listeners would love now to hear a bit of what we've been talking about. 	
liz	So what we're going to do guys if you stay there, we've just got a few goodbyes to say and then we're going to come back and you can introduce your song, okay? The team here were Dan Slipper, Emma Tracey, Andy Fell was the studio manager and the producer was Damon Rose. 	
mat	So until early August I leave you with Peewee from The Kids of Widney High introducing the song. Go, Peewee. 	
PEEWEE	This song will be 'Life Without a Cow'.
[Playing music]