Ouch Podcast #25 – March 2008
bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast

Presented by Mat Fraser, Liz Carr and Rob Crossan

Jingle:
[music: “Down Under” by Men at Work]
You’re so special we’ve made a podcast for you`
Disabled people can have fun too…

[sound of Didgeridoos]

Confined to a website
The Ouch Podcast!

MAT	G’day! How’s it going? My name’s Mat Fraser

ROB	I’m Bonza Rob Crossan

	
MAT	Hold on. There’s a little chicky lady missing.

ROB	Where the devil is she?

MAT	
I dunno. Liz Carr?

LIZ	Hello! Welcome from a land down under.

MAT	Ah, Liz! Through the wonders of magic technology, listeners all over the world, we’ve actually got Liz with us in the studio, virtually.

LIZ	Isn’t this incredible? Isn’t it a small world?

MAT	It’s a wonderfully small world. How is it for you down there?

LIZ	I can’t believe what you’ve just done with the intro song. What was that?

ROB	No expense spared.

MAT	I know.

ROB	It’s the most savage edit I’ve ever heard.

LIZ	It’s an example of production IN..XS…

MAT	Oh, very good. You’ve got to allow our producer, Damon Rose, who did the savage edit – and by the way, I think that should be your DJ name, Damon – a little leeway because he’s a new daddy, and he’s not quite himself at the moment.

LIZ	Ah. Well, hello. I am in Sydney. I’m in Sydney!

MAT	What’s it like there? Is it really hot and full of Australians?

LIZ	No but it is sunny. It is quite sunny, and it’s not at the moment because it’s just after six in the morning. 

MAT	Ha ha ha!

LIZ	Oh yes, that’s funny. 

MAT	Whereas it’s 7.25 in the very civilised evening.

ROB	The pubs are open here, but actually they’re probably open over there too, aren’t they?

LIZ	No disabled person is ever up at this time. I mean, home care – who gets up at this time?

MAT	Home and away care. Anyway, this month it’s an Aussie special as you may have gathered. We’ll be scratching the surface and finding out – what is it like to be disabled down under, as it were? But hopefully, without a bush tucker trial or Ant and Dec. 

ROB	Please. We’ll be chatting with legendary disabled Australian comedian Steady Eddie later on.

MAT	And our audio parlour game Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable returns, only this month we’ve cleverly changed the name to Vegemite, Vegemite or Vegemite.

ROB	See what we did there? Liz and I will be having a bit of a “news-off” later, pitching this month’s disability stories from the UK with those in Australia. Who takes disability more seriously – our media or theirs? Find out later. 

MAT	And music comes from Danny Noonan, live in the studio with Liz. We’ll be meeting him and his lovely wife in about ten minutes.

ROB	So, suffice it to say this month’s podcast is a real, erm, ripper, mate. 

MAT	No drama.

ROB	For more about this show, photos and related links you can click on the Ouch blog via bbc.co.uk/ouch. We’ve changed the way you can access the Podcast from this month onwards, so we now live with all the other BBC podcasts, including those very high brow ones from Radios 3 and 4. 
	
MAT	OK, so. We’ve all been doing things in the last month. Who wants to go first? Rob?

ROB	I just want to know via Liz – how many dangerous animals have you met so far that want to kill you?

LIZ	Um, actually, do you know what, on the way here – we were walking here this morning and I saw a seagull without any feet. How brave is that?

MAT	It’s a sign.

LIZ	He was running across the road, to get a bit of pitta from a kebab. It doesn’t matter where you are in the world.

ROB	Not concerned about its diet.

LIZ	No, I guess he’s already had his feet amputated - the diabetes has gone far enough.

ROB	You live for the moment after that, don’t you?

LIZ	You do. 

ROB	I would if I was a seagull.

MAT	So guys, I’m somewhat of a traveller, because I’ve been touring round the northern towns of Britain, some of the smaller towns obviously not seeming to have any black, gay or disabled people in them and you do feel a little isolated. So it was lovely to end up in Manchester, which is full of gays and blacks and disabled people. And very nice too. You’re surrounded by them Liz, aren’t you, in Australia?

LIZ	I love the way you bring it back to you. Yeah. “I’ve been travelling in a northern town”. That’s really exciting. I’m in Australia! I was in Hong Kong as well but I shouldn’t go on about that. But Australia – fantastic. I went to Summer Bay last week.

MAT	What’s that?

LIZ	I did – I went to Home and Away land. 

ROB	I’ve heard that you and me belong together, there. You and I forever and ever. Did you see Ray Meagher? Ray Meagher plays Alf Stewart in Home and Away. He died? He didn’t die! He could never die! I thought you just said he died.

LIZ	Do you know one of the best things that’s happened to me since I’ve been away? This is the bizarrest thing, I think. I was on a bit of a remote island in the Great Barrier Reef. As somebody terrified of water, what better than to go on an island where there’s nothing else to do but water activities? 

MAT	With razor sharp coral everywhere.

LIZ	That was fun. Yeah. But there I am going for lunch on the first day. “Liz!” I hear, thinking it’s obviously for another Liz. No. It’s a friend of mine. There’s only 50-odd people on this island, and there’s another wheelie. Wherever you go in the world you can’t escape.

ROB	Were you really good friends with her, or was it strangely awkward, just as it would have been if you’d met at a bus stop in Tooting? 

LIZ	Obviously we weren’t close-close, or I would have known where she’d been and booked elsewhere, but there was that thing where you want to be polite, but you don’t want to be overly familiar. 

ROB	You don’t want to encourage them to join you on the rest of your trip, do you?

LIZ	That’s right. Or for dinner, too much, if you know what I mean.

MAT	Oh god, did you have to?

LIZ	Well no, we sat at the table next to each other because they were the only accessible tables. What do you do? Say, “Hello, enjoy your dinner”? I just thought that was very crippy.

MAT	I hear you’ve met – I’d say one of us, but she’s also one of yours, isn’t she? An old friend of mine, and a new friend of yours, you’ve met?

LIZ	Yes, the lovely Kali Wilde, who – I’m not being stereotypical Mat, but she looks identical to you.

MAT	Well she’s a Thalidomide. I can say it right back at you Liz – she looks like you. She looks like you because you’re both gay. All right? 

LIZ	She’s got dark hair and she’s quite thin.

MAT	She’s got dark hair, she’s thin and she’s got short arms. She is however a woman in a dress, and I’m not. So thanks for that. 

LIZ	Yeah, but she’s got your legs.

ROB	And you look better in a dress, Mat.

LIZ	And your flippers. And actually she looks quite like you, facially.

MAT	Ah, OK. Yes, we do all have a similar nose in Thalidomide circles. It’s true.

LIZ	Well I’m wondering - people of restricted growth have that look, don’t they? 

MAT	Yeah. You’re being very cruel now.

LIZ	Maybe I should move on.

MAT	Time to get back to the Barrier Reef. Throw her in.

LIZ	 I think it probably is time to do that anyway, yeah.

MAT	So Rob, what have you been doing? We’ve not heard from you.

ROB	I’ve been – well, I had a bit of travel burnout. I had five weeks in which time I went to Alabama, Tennessee, Valencia, St. Petersburg, El Salvador and Chicago within six weeks. So now I’m slightly tired, and I’ve been working in London at the glorious lads’ mag, Nuts, which is where I’ve been all week, surrounded by boobs and beer. And I’m feeling a little bit old for it if truth be told, but I need the money because my fiancée, frankly, is skint. 

MAT	Well we’ve got quite a few emails to get through this month so if you don’t mind Liz, I wouldn’t mind starting with one from Petro from Michigan. Petro’s responding to our brief discussion on last month’s Podcast about how one university allowed transgendered people into the disabled persons’ toilet because strictly male or female loos weren’t working for them. Petro says that basically, you were disappointed with my flippant dismissal of all that, considering that I’m meant to be an ally of the GLBT community. I think we’ve all got it wrong. I misunderstood and I think you’ve misunderstood. Nothing could be further from the truth. I would celebrate any specialising transgendered toilet thing. I think what I was flippant about was not giving disabled people a gender. I think it would be better if we had a loo each, all of us. So that’s rather awkward. I don’t usually do straightforward apologies, but I’m doing a straightforward apology there because I felt it was needed.

LIZ	GLBT, gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered. That’s one I didn’t know

MAT	I knew that.

LIZ	Yeah, but the listeners…

MAT	Oh, sorry listeners.

ROB	I didn’t.

MAT	There we go, so you’ve learned something there, Rob. 

LIZ	Number two – from Lettuce Wigby in Oxford. What a great name! “I love Ouch so much, I found it about a week ago and have listened to almost every show. I love how it makes me laugh out loud in public. One of my favourite parts was from Podcast 7 when there was a voice clip that said “Liz Carr – repackaging street slurs under the guise of empowerment”. Thank you very much, one of my favourite clips too.

MAT	Ah, god it’s good, isn’t it? Right. I should do another one here. From Gemma in Hampshire. “There is a social networking site exclusively for disabled people actually. I can’t believe Ouch doesn’t have it. It’s called Disaboom. I don’t really like it, personally.” There we go.

LIZ	Turtle, Reading – thank you. Long standing user of the Ouch messageboard, a lot of people will know her. “Dear Mat and The New One: The staff in my local branch of Krispy Kreme Donuts are becoming overly familiar. This is surely because I can be easily identified by wheelchair. Help. PS: I saw Laurence Clark. I said hi, and he said hi. It was awesome.” Wow.

MAT	That’s the kind of earth-shattering email that I love to receive.

LIZ	I love that too. I feel like that when Laurence says hi to me, as well.

ROB	It is pretty awesome isn’t it?

MAT	Or just plain frightening. From Val in Boston in MA, which I think is Massachusetts, isn’t it?

LIZ	That’s easy for you to say.

MAT	God, bring back the seventies. You certainly do with your material. Anyway. “I like Julie Fernandez.” Hear that, Liz? “She’s not as entertainingly cruel as Liz so far, but poor Mat probably deserves respite anyway. Also, have you guys ever…”

[clip cuts in: “Liz Carr – repackaging street slurs under the guise of empowerment”]

And that was more interesting than the rest of that personal email, but thanks Val. Thanks a lot.

LIZ	Actually it’s not because there’s a bit in her email that says have you ever considered doing a segment on disability podcasts and podcasters with disabilities? Here’s one guy to start with – ridingawheelie.com. What sort of a website is that?

MAT	I didn’t think we were allowed to talk about that sort of website.

LIZ	Aren’t we? You normally bring it in every month.

MAT	Well I’m bringing it off this month, thank you very much Liz.

LIZ	Can I just check, am I coming through really loud and clear to you Mat? Because to me you’re sounding like we’re just neighbours.

MAT	Oh, hahahah. Off to Perth with you, and you’ll never be seen again. It’s incredible isn’t it? Let’s do Walt, please, the next one. Who wants to do it? 

	
LIZ	I don’t really want to do much other than say “My name is Walt Bernevovich, North America’s disabled adventurer.”

MAT	I know. Thanks Walt, for telling us that there is only one disabled adventurer in North America, and it is you.

LIZ	And it’s him, and he listens to the Podcast. So, fantastic.

MAT	The point is, listeners, he goes on to say “I’d love to be interviewed on your podcast” and gives a great breadth of ways that we could do it. And with the best will in the world – no. There we go. That’s it really. No, we can’t just have all people being interviewed. They’ve got to be interesting to the whole world, it’s got to be about disability, it can’t be rude, it can’t be selling a private product, and all those things. So, thanks everybody, but…

LIZ	Mat, Walt might be fascinating with his travelling tales. 

MAT	OK. Listeners, you decide. His website is called bluechairbook.com. You decide and get back to us, tell us whether Walt is worth interviewing on a podcast.

LIZ	Have I described where I am?

MAT	No, but I’m shutting my eyes now.

LIZ	It’s like a little room. It’s a bit like a Cell Block H.

MAT	Great.

ROB	Hahaha.

MAT	You’re going to be running out pretty soon, aren’t you?

LIZ	I know. 

ROB	Considering Australia’s only ever made five TV shows.

LIZ	I’ve got most of them in already. Please keep sending in the emails if you want to email us, then do, at ouch@bbc.co.uk. ‘Till next month, when we might read them out.

MAT	Liz it’s really great talking to you again.

LIZ	It’s very strange. 

MAT	I’ve missed you.

LIZ	Isn’t it strange?

MAT	Strange but lovely. 

LIZ	I get really freaked by the whole time thing, because it’s the next day for me. 

MAT	I know!

LIZ	I’m in the future. I’m coming to you from the future. 

MAT	I’ve always wondered about this. Because in my mind, on New Years, especially when there was the Millenium. Because it happened in Fiji first of all, then Tonga, then you guys, then finally over to us. What about betting on stuff that happens? Can you do that? Isn’t there a race somewhere, or a betting opportunity of that we can take advantage of, that you can find out the result of that I can bet on, or the other way around? Isn’t there something Liz?

LIZ	You see, time doesn’t quite work that way. It’s still going to happen at a certain time. 

ROB	The race still occurs, even if it’s three in the morning.

LIZ	Yeah.

ROB	It’s not actually a quantum leap.

MAT	It’s not actually like Dr Who?

LIZ	That’s right. It’s like perspective, Mat. Something’s smaller further away, but it’s not actually smaller.

	[Jingle: “The Ouch Podcast”]

LIZ	I’m not alone in my prison cell here, Mat. I’m not, which is good. I have company. Because you couldn’t just get me over here and then me tell you about Oz; I wanted to meet some real-life disabled people who are Australian. And we’ve found the only two disabled people who would actually get up at this hour in the morning. Not easy, to be honest, but I would like to welcome my guests, Danny Noonan and Sam Noonan.

SAM	Hello.

DANNY	Hi.

LIZ	Hello you two. Thank you so much. Listeners, you’re thinking yes yes, we have heard these people before. Yes. You have. Because Danny, you were on Veg Veg or Veg, but you weren’t quite, were you?

DANNY	No, I was on as a surrogate voice for my cat; you actually got his disability and I was quite upset.

LIZ	It was the only one that I ever guessed right.

DANNY	I think they got it last month when you were away.

LIZ	You had a cat with HIV, with AIDS.

DANNY	Feline AIDS, yes.

LIZ	Feline AIDS. And we guessed it. I’ve been here now for six weeks, and you arrive from England at this time of year – January, February, March – it’s cold. It’s very cold, it’s winter. It’s still your summer here and you’re going into your autumn now. It looks a great country. Is it a great country to be disabled in? Is it as sunny as it looks when you arrive? 

DANNY	What a load of questions! From what I hear from other people in other places it’s pretty good. We have a fairly good access infrastructure, it’s getting better. We have a beautiful pension.

LIZ	Really? Tell us more.

DANNY	Not too bad.  We’re actually lucky - we’re spoiled. Blind people seem to get every little freebie that you can get out here, so sorry Liz, but we have the only non-means-tested pension. We get free public transport with an attendant.

LIZ	No! But is the transport worth getting? Is it any good?

DANNY	I hate buses, because if you can’t wave your arm like a lunatic the bus won’t stop for you. But the trains are good. We get half price cabs as well, or I would have gone broke.

LIZ	I think, from my experience of being here so far, the attitude is so laid back, but it’s more if you want to do something and it’s not accessible, people seem to make it so. It’s like “If you want to do it, all right, we’ll make it happen.” Do you feel valued?

SAM	I guess we are. It’s really hard, I mean prejudice is still around, no matter where you are, and I haven’t really travelled overseas so I can only talk about Australia. Say for instance – it might be the same in the UK, but – if you were to go to the zoo or something, if you ring in advance the staff will show you around, and you can often touch things in museums.

DANNY	But there are two sides to it too, because we do have the laid back “oh we’ll help you mate, everything’s great” but then also you have the concept that if you don’t do things for yourself you’re a bit of a whinger, you’re a lazy bludger, and that can sometimes – well, it wouldn’t take you much more to do it yourself. It’s the dichotomy, I think.

ROB	Danny, can I dive in and ask you a question there as a fellow visually impaired individual? Just curious about the thorny, or potentially deadly issue of funnel web spiders down the toilet. As a visually impaired person, how do you manage to spot them in advance so you don’t get a sudden case of, well, death? How do you avoid that?

DANNY	Well see, that’s famous in song and literature but doesn’t actually happen that much, at least in the big cities.

ROB	You must leave the city now and again, surely?

MAT	And go to the toilet.

ROB	Yeah. Ideally, yes.

DANNY	How much do people look down the toilet at three o’clock in the morning and how much can you see past your own bum when you’re sitting down? That’s the real question.
	
ROB	So it’s just the typically Australian attitude of “well, if it happens, it happens”? 

DANNY	She’ll be right mate.

ROB	She’ll be right mate, yeah. 

LIZ	You say about the laziness thing, I’m thinking about that, and if you don’t do stuff “oh come on, you’re a bit of a whinger” – if you’re a disabled person that needs support or assistance, like I have personal assistants at home in the UK and obviously while I’m travelling, then is it out there? If I was to emigrate, would I get support?

DANNY	I don’t think they’d let you emigrate. They seem to be very very strict about if you’re going to be a burden on our wonderful society then we can’t pay for your medical expenses, we can’t pay for your carers, they’ve even refused people to come over here because they’re overweight.

LIZ	But if you are a resident, in your two cases, would you get support? Would it be easy?

DANNY	There are things in place obviously and lots of people do get assistance. There seem to be those cracks that I’m sure every country has; we tried to get someone to come out just for an hour every couple of weeks or something, just to help with some of the fiddly things that we couldn’t do as well, not that we can’t claim, but… and we seem to fall in every crack. If we were a gay couple, if we were married, if we were this or that it would be applicable but it wasn’t, for us. There are things, but there seems to be a shortage. If we try and do home care and things, we don’t have enough staff, we don’t have the resources, so we aren’t important enough which is fair enough – we can do most things. We’re lucky in that respect.

LIZ	It’s very similar in the UK, and more so, that if you can do stuff for yourself, it’s more the social stuff or the cleaning, then you’re not as important.

DANNY	That makes sense to me too.

LIZ	I was talking to somebody yesterday and asking them a similar question and they said – because I have 24/7 assistance all the time – they said you would, if you lived here, be in care, pretty much. 

DANNY	Yeah, if you really needed it, if you were unable to do things yourself, it would be different.

MAT	Can I ask a question at this point?

DANNY	Definitely.

MAT	Great. One of the things I think about access, it isn’t just physical access, it’s in terms of access to cultural acceptance, and I think that comes of exposure, of seeing us on telly or in films and on stage and stuff. Do you get many crips and disabled people in the shows in Australia? Do you ever see us on telly?

DANNY	No.

SAM	No, no. Not at all.

DANNY	I’m sure there are some exceptions on the ABC.

ROB	But you seem almost resigned to that.

DANNY	I’m sure Liz has seen they have some lovely ads that have disabled people saying “If you drink and drive you’ll end up like me, you bludger”.

LIZ	The ads are incredible – do you remember years ago in the UK there used to be a drink drive ad, very similar, where it had a guy who was a wheelchair user being fed, and it was basically saying if you drink and drive, this is the fate that could befall you. And they’ve got them still over here. And there’s one for the blind children. The blind children. Tom Terrific, or whatever. Here comes Tom Terrific.

SAM	And it’s got this cute little jingle, sweet.

DANNY	And they have ads with blind boys about four years old: “and this is so-and-so, and he’s named his cane…”

LIZ	His magic stick!

SAM	His magic stick. 

LIZ	Don’t talk to Mat about his magic stick - it always gets nasty. OK. Not just to have the Aussie Experience here – I know you’re feeling a bit jealous over there.

MAT	I’m livid. I’m green with envy.

LIZ	You sound it. So, we have…

MAT	Oh, hold on a sec.

LIZ	What?

MAT	Hold on a sec. Emma’s just come in with some lovely…

EMMA	I hope you have water, Mat, you’re going to need it. And Rob. 

MAT	OK, I have got water, thanks Emma.

ROB	Oh my god, what is this?

LIZ	Rob, you have your very own bush tucker trial. 

MAT	Hahaha! Hold on a minute! We’ve got…

ROB	I’ve got roadkill! I’ve got what I believe to be probably kangaroo meat, and next to that… can you tell me what it is if it’s not kangaroo then?

EMMA	You’ve got kangaroo on one side. Have you any idea what the other one is?

ROB	I’ve got kangaroo here - this is the huge slab of dark, slightly sinister-looking meat. And I’ve got something that looks slightly like a jam tart, but…

MAT	With a swastika on the top.

ROB	Yeah, it looks like a miniature draughts game going on on top. I’ve no idea what’s in this. I imagine it would be – I don’t know – pelican? Tell me, what is it?

EMMA	I think you should taste it. 

MAT	Can I just shout out to all the vegetarians listening – I’m so sorry. This is nothing to do with me.

ROB	This is the most greasy, oily concoction I’ve ever held in my hand since I last visited Greggs the bakers.

LIZ	That’s saying something, where you’ve been.

ROB	I’m just going to bite in.

MAT	He’s not retching yet – he’s chewing. He’s frowning, but he’s chewing. Oh, he’s frowning more. He’s looking…I’m feeling nauseous.

ROB	Oh, oh dear. It’s like chewing a used condom filled with Spam. 

MAT	And we’ve all done that, right Liz?

LIZ	Mat, do you actually know what you’ve got? You’ve been very quiet.

MAT	I know what I’ve got. Hopefully Vaughan can take an mpeg of me smearing it all over my mouth and licking it up – it’s Vegemite!

[music: “He just smiled and gave me a Vegemite sandwich”]

I love Vegemite! Thank you so much!

LIZ	Isn’t it just like Marmite  - you love it or you hate it? 

MAT	No, sorry. Rewind selecta. Don’t insult Australia. Vegemite is nothing like Marmite. Vegemite has got a rough edge to it. Marmite’s smooth and horrible. 

LIZ	Oh, it’s just evil.

ROB	And can you tell me what this is, which I’ve just now swallowed and am feeling slightly nauseous.

EMMA	No, I need more guesses.

LIZ	Just describe it again.

ROB	Um, it’s a cross between a greasy quiche filled with spam. I’m not quite sure. With a slightly fishy overtone.

LIZ	That would be the crocodile we prepared for you.

MAT	Oh!!!

ROB	It’s crocodile? Is it really? God.

EMMA 	Cooked fresh today. 

ROB	I’m going to try the kangaroo now.  Can I tuck into the kangaroo? 

LIZ	It’s not very good radio, Rob.

ROB	It’s unbelievably chewy. It’s like eating a massive ball of elastic bands. Covered in wallpaper paste.

LIZ	Mmmmm. And this is all they eat over here.

MAT	Except the vegetarians, who eat healthily.

LIZ	They eat it too!

ROB	Wallaby is considered vegetarian cuisine in Australia. 

DANNY	What is a vegetarian?

ROB	Somebody who doesn’t eat, clearly.

LIZ	That’s enough of the food from this side of the world to your side. Danny, Sam – we’ll come back to you and chat to you a bit later on. Thank you.

[jingle: bbc.co.uk/ouch]

LAURENCE	And now, it’s time for Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable. 

MAT	[Australian accent] Don’t dob me in - let’s all go to Surfer’s Paradise. Can you look after the coffee shop for me? It’s an emergency. Fancy a lamington, you old crippled cobber? Or maybe you’d like some Vegemite, Vegemite or Vegemite?

ROB	Yes, while drawing on what we know as Australian culture, what Mat was trying to say there was it’s time to play our almost famous quiz, Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable. 

MAT	Too true. We get a disabled caller on the line and play a special “what’s wrong with you?” game, while also trying to avoid a lawsuit for hurt feelings, trauma and sorrow. 

ROB	Liz and the crew in Australia are standing by, aren’t you, Liz and the crew in Australia?

LIZ	We are!

ROB 	And we’ve got a caller lined up and ready – hello Tanya Holloway.

TANYA	Hi, how are you?

ROB	I’m wonderful, thank you.

LIZ	Hello Tanya. 

TANYA	Hello.

MAT	Tanya, tell us a bit about yourself but obviously not giving away anything to do with what’s wrong with you.

TANYA	OK, I’m not working at the moment. My main job at the moment is to foster kittens.

MAT	Aawwwww!

TANYA	For an animal shelter.

MAT	Awwww.

ROB	Just kittens, or do you have other animals that interact with them in a cute way?

TANYA	Um, I’m going to have a mother cat today, with some babies.

LIZ	Danny and Sam are in the studio with me here, and Danny was on months ago on Veg Veg or Veg because he has a cat with feline AIDS. That killed the air, didn’t it?

MAT	I tell you what; shall we get on with the old quiz?

LIZ	Shall we? Would you like the rules? Said in an English way, not an Australian way? Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable is a clever disability interpretation of the parlour game Animal, Vegetable or Mineral. In the game, the two hosts of the Ouch Podcast have 90 seconds to guess what is wrong with the disabled caller on the line by asking a series of fiendishly intelligent questions. The caller must only answer yes or no – it is both classic and therapeutic. 

MAT	To take part in this intrusive and unpleasant game, the rules clearly state you must be disabled. Tanya, are you disabled?

TANYA	Yes.

LIZ	OK, everybody. There’s about a hundred of us playing now – if we don’t get it… 90 seconds are on the clock; our time starts now.

MAT	Can you walk?

TANYA	Yes.

ROB	Do you have breathing difficulties?

LIZ	Have you got hands?

TANYA	No.

EVERYONE	[laughs]

ROB	We’re so scared of talking over each other.

MAT	Are you covered in fur?

TANYA	No.

ROB	Do you have bouts of feeling slightly blue?

TANYA	Yes.

LIZ	
Have you got feline AIDS?

TANYA	No.

MAT	Do you take prescription drugs on a regular basis?

TANYA	Yes.

MAT	Do they work?

TANYA	Ummmmm. Yes.

MAT	Why?

LIZ	Have you always been disabled?

TANYA	No.

LIZ	Hmm, you’re an acquired. She’s an acquired.

	
ROB	Did you go to a special school? 

TANYA	No.

DANNY	Are you a snapback?

TANYA	Pardon?

MAT	I’m just going to cut straight through with: If you were a pole dancer, how many poles would you have? Would it be two?

TANYA	How many poles would I have?

MAT	Yeah, would it be two?

TANYA	None. I wouldn’t be a pole dancer.

MAT	None? So you’re not bipolar?

LIZ	Oh, clever!

MAT	I thought so.  Nobody else did.

LIZ	Do you have depression?

MAT	I thought that was bipolar.

TANYA	I do, but that’s not my disability.

MAT	Stop asking her questions. She won. We failed.

	
LIZ	It’s just there’s a time delay – I couldn’t hear.
	
ROB	Not of five minutes, Liz. Tanya, can you reveal what your disability is please?

TANYA	Pardon?

MAT	What’s wrong with you, love?

TANYA	I’ve got ME.

MAT	Nice, that’s a good one!

ROB	We haven’t had it before, have we?

MAT	Not for a long time. Tanya, when people find out you’ve got ME, what do they usually say? 

TANYA	I often get people saying that they’re tired all the time as well.

MAT	Oh, I hate that.

TANYA	Yes, I do too.

LIZ	But I’m really exhausted; it is only a quarter to eight here. So thank you for getting up, Tanya. 

	
MAT	Is there anything you’d like, Tanya, that you’d like to ask us for? Seeing as you won?

TANYA	Um, no?

MAT	Hmm. Do you have tea?

LIZ	You wouldn’t like a Podcast mug, maybe? That we can’t send as a prize, but if you asked nicely?

	
ROB	Look she clearly doesn’t want one - let’s just keep it for ourselves.

LIZ	Okay. If anybody does want a Podcast mug, and cares?

ROB	They don’t Liz. No one does.

LIZ	Tanya, thank you so much.

TANYA	Thank you.

LIZ	Take care, bye.

TANYA	OK, bye.

LIZ	She sounds a bit shell-shocked.

MAT	Yeah, or something like that.

LIZ 	If you want to take part, if you really want to take part, in what will probably be going back to Vegetable Vegetable or Vegetable then email ouch@bbc.co.uk and you may win an Ouch mug. Get one fast, because they’re changing the logo in a few months so it could be curtains. Why are they changing the logo? I didn’t know that. They could be worth a fortune on Ebay. 

MAT	What are they changing it to?

LIZ	I dunno.

DANNY	Something cool, hopefully.

MAT	Yeah, good point.

ROB	This one’s like a new Coke-esque disaster. It’ll go for a couple of weeks, then they’ll change it right back to how it’s always been.

[jingle: The Ouch Podcast]

MAT	It’s now time to look at some news stories from last month. Rob, as usual, has been scouring the UK papers and Liz has been looking at a bit of news from Australia. So what we’re going to do is a bit of a ‘news-off’. I’m going to be the judge, and I’m going to judge who covers disability best. Is it Rob and his UK media, or Liz and her Oz media. If you hear me yawning, beware. Right, here we go. Liz – apparently a family shooting incident in the Adelaide hills?

LIZ	Yes, I shouldn’t laugh should I? “Man shot disabled son out of concern, court told.” Out of concern, Mat. Isn’t that lovely. That was this last month – a court has heard that an elderly man shot his intellectually disabled son out of concern for what his life could become after his father dies. Yeah, maybe ‘good’ is the answer there. Try and top that, then

MAT	That’s a good start. Rob, apparently something about crip-on-crip auto crime?

ROB	Crip-on-crip auto crime, and I must say that I have cheated slightly in that this story isn’t actually from the UK. I’m so sorry. I am in the UK, and I found it on my UK laptop. Detectives arrested a Samson County man – Samson County is in Wisconsin – for allegedly stealing disabled cars along highways and selling them for scrap metal, possibly making thousands of dollars. Investigators said Douglas McGhee III – it’s the name – used his flatbed truck and trailer to haul away at least a dozen broken down cars. He then sold the cars as scrap metal to salvage yards. “It’s a lucrative business when you consider you’re getting $1000 per vehicle, and you’re pulling 5 vehicles a day,” a spokesman for the Sherrif’s office said. McGhee could not be reached for comment. His father Douglas McGhee Jr. said his son did not understand what he was doing. “My son has a mental condition. He doesn’t think like you and I do,” Douglas McGhee Jr. said. “With his mentality what he thought was right, was wrong. He’s a good boy. He’d give you the shirt off his back and the shoes off his feet.”

LIZ	Well at least he didn’t shoot his son.

MAT	I am, as a British disabled person, scared of travelling, frankly, at the moment.

ROB	Scared of pulling over, anyway.

MAT	Indeed, or of going up any hills in Adelaide. A real stop press story about a garage theft in Perth, Liz?

LIZ	Yes. “Police search for stolen wheelchair” – this was actually yesterday. Police in Perth are searching for the people responsible for stealing an electric wheelchair from a 60-year-old disabled man.

MAT	How do you steal, literally, the seat from under somebody’s arse?

LIZ	Well, I’m going to read out the story. It’s quite fascinating. Family friend John O’Connell says the man had a number of strokes, which have left him unable to walk or speak – we like that kind of medical detail in a news story. He was staying at his mother’s house in the suburb of Noranda when they discovered the wheelchair gone this morning. Mr O’Connell says the theft has left his friend obviously distressed. “They would have had to go down a driveway. They lifted a garage door up and walked away with a wheelchair,” he said. “So that’s the interesting side – it must have been targeted, I think.” He’s a sharp shooter, this guy. Mr O’Connell says, “The battery had about one hour’s charge left on the battery. If anyone’s seen a wheelchair abandoned somewhere maybe that’s the one.”
	
MAT	Probably right now, it’s being abandoned as we speak, isn’t it?

LIZ	Possibly. But I did see one in a pawn shop yesterday. No, not that kind of shop. 

MAT	Do the pawn shops in Australia have three brass balls outside as well?

LIZ	No.

MAT	OK. Rob. An official slip of the tongue in Northern Ireland. What?

ROB	Yes.  “Lord Mayor Sorry For Slip of Tongue” Lord Mayor of Belfast last night apologised unreservedly over an offensive slip of the tongue. During a live radio discussion yesterday about the poor condition of pavements in Belfast city centre, Mr Rogers said the footpaths were “difficult for disabled people to negotiate, as well as human beings.” Human beings – disabled people – different. However, speaking to the Belfast Telegraph last night, Mr Rogers urged anyone who had been offended by his remarks to contact him. Maybe we will. He said “I did correct it at the time and made it quite clear that the footpaths were problems for disabled people, able bodied people and also those with buggies. It was a genuine slip of the tongue made during an early morning telephone call. That’s all it was. There was absolutely no offence intended. As one who is actively involved with disability groups, I would never intentionally offend anyone by differentiating between human beings and disabled people.” Are we convinced? Is that apology grovelling enough?

MAT	It reminds me of a certain Ron in the football world in Britain, somehow. Liz, I’m moving swiftly on. You’re both doing very well. One of you is in the lead but I’m not letting you know who yet.

LIZ	Well Australia is of course the place of apology, isn’t it?

MAT	It is now. 

LIZ	When I arrived here we had the – is it president? Prime minister. Apologised to the Aboriginal community for the stolen children – children that were taken away and given to white families to be raised as white, basically.

MAT	Any non-Australian or savvy listeners who are wondering what the hell that’s going on about, just watch the film Rabbit Proof Fence and all will become apparent. Liz, don’t interrupt me, I’m trying to ask you a question darling. 

LIZ	I’m going to apologise for my lack of a final story. This story is the best one.

MAT	What is it? A sport access solution, but it’s dangerous for disabled people?

LIZ	Oh yes, the news is dart play is now available for all. Are you excited by this?

MAT	Thrilled, go on.

LIZ	After years of research and lobbying, there’s now an exemption under section 8B of the controlled weapons act 1990 so that people with a disability who wish to participate in the sport of darts can now do it using a blowgun and darts. 

MAT	Oh my god – that’s fantastic!

LIZ	I know!

MAT	Liz, can you get one while you’re there? A blowgun and some darts?

ROB	Yeah, take that on a plane.

LIZ	And these things are important, because to be honest finding Australian news stories about disability was painful, it really was. But it did show me that issues, no matter where you go, are always the same. I hate that word, I’m sorry. But you know, one of the stories was the government wants to get disabled people back to work. Sounds familiar. Get them off benefits and back to work – it’s happening in the UK. The other one was about cuts to support and personal assistance. It’s all the same stuff, and the final one was about disabled people having hassles with their taxis.

MAT	I can hear you desperately making excuses, Liz, for the poor show that you’ve given.

LIZ	I’m so sorry – it’s my apology.

MAT	Over to Rob. Disabled man draws attention to environmental issues in an unexpected way.

ROB	This is a typical skateboarding parrot story. This is the ‘and finally’. A physically challenged man on Friday covered a distance of five kilometres on his hands to generate awareness of the need to protect the environment. John Peter, 30, whose legs are disabled – detail – I like the detail – kept his legs on the laps in a lotus posture position and used the hands to move through the main thoroughfares of his home town, which it doesn’t actually say what the home town is. Peter said he wanted to bring into focus the negative impact of plastic materials on the environment. I do rather enjoy the randomness of this, and I wonder if there’s any – Mat, where are you going?

MAT	I’m sorry – a mouse….aagggh!!

ROB	There’s a mouse in the studio!

	
MAT	A mouse just crawled across the floor of the studio! In the BBC!

ROB 	It genuinely did. 

MAT	I’ve just moved my coat away from the skirting board, sorry.  Rob, I’m so sorry I interrupted there.

ROB	It’s all right – there’s a moose loose in the hoose!

MAT	Well, I don’t like being in a position of power, having to say live to one and die to another, so I have to say your stories were better, Rob.

ROB	Hooray.

MAT	Liz, obviously, worked harder at getting hers. So for effort on her part and sheer success, wit and verve on yours – are you listening, Liz? –I have to award a political draw. Although really, Rob won.

ROB	Woohoo. Yeah, you lager-guzzling reprobate.

	
MAT	But if we’ve got mice in our studio, what’ve you got down under?

LIZ	You could ride on the backs of the mice you get here. That’s what it’s like.

MAT	But don’t you have tarantulas – look up to where the ceiling joins the wall – is there not a tarantula in the studio? Oh, the mouse! Sorry, it literally keeps coming back.

ROB	Did you see it?

MAT	Yes!

ROB	Where is it?

MAT	It’s under the basket and it keeps popping its head up and looking at me! By the way, it looks to only have three legs.

ROB	It’s an Ouch pet!

MAT	The Ouch mascot.

[jingle: bbc.co.uk/ouch]

MAT	
Well, I think it was in the 90s that the Edinburgh comedy festival was blown apart by this disabled Australian guy called Steady Eddie, with his so-called offensive disability humour.  And we have him on the line now – he’s our interview for today. Hello Steady Eddie.

	
EDDIE	Hello mate, how are ya?

MAT	I’m good thanks, how are you?

EDDIE	Yeah, not too bad.

MAT	You’re a working comedian and yet it’s only seven in the morning – what’s going on? Why are you awake?

EDDIE	I must be on autopilot I suppose. 

MAT	Fair enough.

LIZ	When we were asking around about which guests to get while I was in Australia, so many people said you’ve got to talk to Steady Eddie. You’re known all over, you’re an international name.

EDDIE	Yeah, I’ve been doing it now for about 17 years, so, yeah, still going strong.

MAT	And are you still doing your so-called offensive non-PC style of disability humour?

EDDIE	Yeah, I’m about to embark on a tour of New Zealand in a couple of days and then I’ll be over there for about five weeks.

[clip of Eddie’s stand-up: And my teachers were the best. They used to say Steady, you’re disabled. Very intelligent, they were. They said you’ve got to be inconspicuous, to fit into the mainstream of society. Every morning a bus would come to pick me up with Spastics written down the side.]

MAT	Wow. I’m interested, because I remember your stuff and I remember how the disability crew reacted against it, and how much they love what Liz Carr does now, and the difference is fifteen years. But for my money, the material’s quite similar, so what’s changed in the last fifteen years, do you think?

EDDIE	Well mate, the only place that I ever had a problem was the UK, and I did my act all around Australia and New Zealand and didn’t have a problem. It was fifteen years ago in the UK and the anti-discrimination laws were non-existent, and really, I think that played a big part in it.

ROB	And Eddie, did you in a strange way, maybe prefer it fifteen years ago when you were performing in the UK and you got a lot of people’s backs up? Or do you prefer it now that audiences are more accepting?

EDDIE	Um, either way mate, you know, there’s always going to be taboo subjects, whether it be disability, whether it be political jokes or whatever, every decade there’s another taboo anyway.

[clip: And when I got back to Australia I had to appear on TV. And TV has done wonders for my career. I sold twice as many pens on the weekend.]

LIZ	So your show now that you’re about to go on tour with – what’s the theme of that? Just tell us about that before we go.

EDDIE	Basically it’s called the Highway to Hippyville, and it’s all about my change of lifestyle, what I’ve been through in the last three and a half, four years, in changing my life totally around, divorce, marriage, basically how I perceive it all.

MAT	Mate, the line’s not that good, so it’s been really good talking to you; I’ve always wanted to have a chat with you so that’s been really nice but I’m afraid we’re going to have to say goodbye from this end now. Steady Eddie, thanks very much.

EDDIE	No worries – thanks a lot.

[jingle: The Ouch Podcast]

LIZ	We’re getting to the end of the Podcast. Mat, Rob, I have a final treat for you. Are you ready? In front of you you’ve got a cup of tea and a chocolate biscuity thing. You’re about to do the Tim Tam Slam.

ROB	What does that involve?

MAT	How do we do it?

LIZ	Well, we want to see if it’s accessible, because this is an Aussie thing to do. Danny, what’s it about?

DANNY	It’s very very simple. All you need to do is – you’re going to have a biscuit straw. A Tim Tam is a chocolate biscuit with cream or custard or something in the middle, we never know. If you’d like to bite the ends off your Tim Tams first, that’s part of the experience.

ROB	OK. These are very small by the way, kind of like a Penguin bar, for British listeners. 

DANNY	And basically once you’ve done that and choked whilst laughing, then you suck your beverage through the centre of the biscuit. So it’s a confectionary filtration system. 
	
ROB	[sounds of drink being sucked through the biscuit]

DANNY	Is this an adult podcast?

MAT	It’s quite nice actually – has yours – oh yeah, it’s fallen apart. Haha! You look like you’ve been eating poo.

LIZ	No, he looks like you Mat, after the Vegemite.

ROB	Please tell me who invented this game. Which bored farmer in the middle of the northern territory invented this game?

MAT	It’s a good game though; it’s very tasty and delicious.

DANNY	I don’t think Australians actually do it. I think it’s like the Vegemite, we just make you all suffer. 

LIZ	This is it, this is the end of the Podcast. Mat, Rob, I’m going.

MAT	Oh, my gosh. It’s been wonderful.

LIZ	It’s been so good. Look, I’ve been away for six weeks, have I missed anything in the UK?

MAT	Ooooh, I don’t know. Rob, what’s been going on?

ROB	Well, we’ve got electricity.

MAT	That’s nice. A bit of snow. 

ROB	And lots of wind. Oh, and our first earthquake. Our biggest earthquake for 25 years.

MAT	5.2 on the Richter. But, some sad news Liz. Are you sitting down? I’m afraid that Jeremy Beadle, a previous interview guest of ours, died recently, which is very sad. 

LIZ	Well it is, and it is for all of our other guests, maybe it’s like we’ve set a curse.
	
ROB	What, that people eventually die?

LIZ	Well yeah, exactly.

MAT	Did she miss anything else important we should tell her?

ROB	Prince Harry got airlifted out of Afghanistan. There’s been lots of snow, lots of wind, and an earthquake. 

MAT	Oh, and mortgage rates have done something. There we go. 

LIZ	Anyway, I’m not here next month, guys. No. You’ve got Kiruna Stammel. You’ve got another Aussie. 

MAT	Currently residing in Manchester. We will treat her very well. We’ll treat her as well as we treat you, Liz.

LIZ	That’s the end of Podcast 25 from Sydney and London. The production team were Damon Rose, Emma Tracey, Vaughan Simons and Jo Hutton in London, and in Sydney, thanks to John Diamond at ABC and our pod-tastic guests in the studio, Danny and Sam Noonan. And huge apologies, everyone, for the hideous Australian clichés. It’s just that everybody in the UK is just jealous that they’re stuck in London. Big thanks too to Allanah Jones for her research and fixing. We’re going to play out with a song from our guest, Danny Noonan. It’s called “On Display”. Until next time, bye.

MAT	Bye!

LIZ	Bye, from a land down under – bye!

[music]
My life is like a ship within a bottle
So much time, love and pain, hope and shame
And such a small and fragile vessel
So don’t come too near
Or you might see through my thin glass wall
Discover my fear
Is that no one will be here
To catch me if I fall

‘Cause my soul’s on display
My heart’s for your contemplation
So please don’t be afraid to stay
Because my loneliness is such a painful affliction

It seems so funny to me now
That I have only just learned how
To shut my stupid mouth
But it seems the only way
That I can find each day
To stop these angry words from slipping out

So don’t come too near
Or you might see through my bitterness
And discover these words 
They hide the fear
That you might judge me
With no more than a glance

‘Cause my soul’s on display
My heart’s for your contemplation
So please don’t be afraid to stay
Because my loneliness is such a painful affliction

‘Cause I’m just afraid I’m not too proud
I’m just afraid to bear my soul out loud
So come closer won’t you please?
It’s the only way you’ll ever hear me.

‘Cause my soul’s on display
My heart’s for your contemplation
I’m so glad that you finally stayed
Because your love to me is such a wonderful addiction
Yes your love to me is such a necessary affliction