Ouch Podcast #23
bbc.co.uk/ouch/podcast

Jingle:
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Disabled people can have fun too
They can do anything we can do
Say thank you to the BBC
Dry your eyes and listen in
To people just like you
Confined to a website
The Ouch Podcast!

MAT	Oh, god.
	
LIZ	Really, we’re on. The light’s on.
	
MAT	Yeah?
	
LIZ	Yep. I’m Liz Carr.
	
MAT	Oh, I’m Mat Fraser
	
LIZ	And happy new year. New year, hangover show, not very well prepared.
	
MAT	But it’s OK, because the producer is very well prepared, and he’s arranged something to kick us into action.
	
LIZ	Yep, there’s a healthy looking stranger in the studio.
	
MAT	Oh my gosh, so there is.
	
LIZ	I don’t think I even have the energy to say hello to her. Do you talk?
	
HEALTHY STRANGER	Good morning! Of course I do, at least I’m feeling energetic this morning.
	
LIZ	Oh god, she’s one of those morning people. OK
	
MAT	So coming up, we’ve got very famous dwarf actor Warwick Davis, joining us down the telephone line to discuss his career from Star Wars to Harry Potter, and now his new project Shortfellas. So I guess we’ll be looking forward to talking to him. 
	
LIZ	What was that?
	
MAT	It was my Joe Pesci impersonation.
	
LIZ	Why?
	
MAT	What, you think I’m funny? I make you laugh?
	
LIZ	Sometimes.

MAT	No, you see, it’s not very good.

LIZ	Have I lost it now? I’m sorry.
	
MAT	Joe Pesci’s quite short, isn’t he?
	
LIZ	He is.
	
MAT	Do you think he’ll be in Shortfellas?
	
LIZ	Is he a dwarf?
	
MAT	No!
	
LIZ	I want to know – well, I’ll wait until we’ve got Warwick…
	
MAT	Prince and Kylie Minogue are borderline, aren’t they?
	
LIZ	Do you know what we’ve got?
	
MAT	What?
	
LIZ	We do have our unmissable quiz Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable. 
	
MAT	Oh, I can feel the life coming back into me.

LIZ	I know.  Yet another victim on the phone wants us to guess what’s wrong with him. 
	
MAT	Oh, brilliant. And our usual discussions of course, and unbearably funny wit. Plus Liz has something rather important to tell us all.
	
LIZ	Well, OK, non-UK listeners should prick up their ears for that one later. We’re going to be playing out the show with a touch of this.

[rap music]
I saw the girl dancing, I was the DJ
I saw a girl that was ten feet tall
She’s in my film

That’s Heart and Soul’s Club Posse – that’s MC Dean.
	
MAT	Hello Dean. But before all that, ladies and gentlemen of the Podcast listenership, the stranger in the studio that we were talking about is the one and only Leanne Grose! Hello Leanne.
	
LEANNE	Hello! There’s no drum roll or anything. 
	
LIZ	I know - we have to do our own. Producer tells us you’re here partly to knock us into shape for the new year. 
	
LEANNE	Well, I’m trying to, yes.
	
MAT	You do look alarmingly healthy. What’s wrong with you?
	
LEANNE	What’s wrong with me? Didn’t you notice when I shuffled in on my crutches earlier on? I only have one leg.
	
MAT	WHAT?
	
LEANNE	Yes, that’s true Mat, I only have one leg.
	
MAT	The same as Vaughan Simons? Superb!
	
LEANNE	Yes, the same as Vaughan. 
	
LIZ	We’re going to come back to you in a bit and see how you’re going to knock us into shape.
	
MAT	A bit of exercise, eh?
	
LEANNE	I’ll knock you into shape.
	
MAT	Oh golly. Sounds a little scary.

LIZ	Seems ominous – I’m not sure. Er, hello Mat.
	
MAT	Hello Liz. Happy new year!
	
LIZ	Happy new year to you too.
	
MAT	Mwah, mwah.
	
LIZ	Hey, it’s been a while – the last time we were together was the Ouch Christmas do.
	
MAT	They’re starting to become something of a fantastic ritual, aren’t they?
	
LIZ	Tell, come on – people weren’t there.
	
MAT	Well, I had a gig booked at the learning disabled club, The Bubble Club, which is in the east end of London.
 	
LIZ	Excellent place.
	
MAT	And I suggested to the team that we could have our Christmas do there, because they’ve got the Thai food in the restaurant at the front.
	
LIZ	Oh look at me, I’m performing, come and watch and see how great I am?
	
MAT	No, it wasn’t like that. But unbeknownst to me, after the Podcast team had said yes, they then told me they wanted me to do half an hour of Christmas songs. Hahaha! So I had to go to a well known DVD shop and buy 20 Christmas Karaoke Classics and frantically learn them.
	
LIZ	And I heard probably the best version of Do They Know It’s Christmas that I have ever heard in my life.
	
MAT	It became very quickly apparent that most of the audience knew all the songs far better than I did.
	
LIZ	This is true.
	
MAT	So I sensibly got them up on the stage and tried to recreate the video from the first ever Do They Know It’s Christmas, and there was only one microphone.
	
LIZ	There was this one guy – a big guy in a red shirt.
	
MAT	He was huge ladies and gentlemen, a big barrel of a man. Thought he was going to have a big baritone voice.
	
LIZ	Absolutely, yep, you’d expect that from him but no. High pitched and very silly. “Do They Know It’s Christmas…”

MAT	Haha, it was brilliant! It was genuinely moving as well, wasn’t it?
	
LIZ	Well, I moved to the bar after that.
	
MAT	And Damon just went home, didn’t he? Our lovely producer wasn’t there when I came off stage. Thanks for the support, sir. No, I did get a lovely text from him later.
	
LIZ	It’s like you had to drag us out to see you. “It’s a Christmas do, come and watch me!” No, it’s fine. I’m just jealous.
	
MAT	We had Jo there, our lovely studio op. We had the other Jo, who perhaps we might be mentioning a little later, but where were you, Vaughan?
	
VAUGHAN	Elsewhere. 
	
MAT	You were ‘elsewhere’, where you? Apparently it was elsewhere far more important than your own Christmas Podcast?
	
VAUGHAN	I was getting drunk.
	
LIZ	So were we.
	
MAT	Vaughan was getting drunk, ladies and gentlemen. Fine. 
	
LIZ	But it’s not all fun and frolics, because over the Christmas period – we’re not really allowed to talk about that, we don’t want to talk about it too much.
	
MAT	Because of sensitivity to other religions?
	
LIZ	Well no, just because it’s over.
	
MAT	Oh, ok. Fair enough.
	
LIZ	Know what I mean? It’s 2008. New year, move on. I went home but I want to talk about, very briefly…
	
MAT	You always have great family Christmas stories. 
	
LIZ	No, it’s the presents I got this year. I’m going to pass you something Mat.
	
MAT	What’s this?
	
LIZ	This is one of the gifts I got this year.
	
MAT	Oh wow – eh? Er ok. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a tradition in this country called Gingerbread Men, and you get little moulds and make little biscuits made of ginger and they look like little men. Only some of these – well, the first man – one for you, Leanne and Vaughan – has got a leg missing.  Second man’s got an arm missing, and Damon, there’s one for you here – one with a head missing. 
	
LIZ	Disabled cookie cutters – I love them.
	
MAT	I’m going to hold it up so Vaughan can take a photo for the webcast…?
	
LIZ	Er, what do we do?
	
MAT	Where’s the gramophone?
	
LIZ	On the interweb? We’ll put some up, shall we? But it’s not as good as my best present, which was a trampoline.
	
MAT	WHAT? Why?
	
LIZ	Why – why the hilarity?
	
MAT	Wow. Great present.
	
LIZ	I know I use an electric wheelchair but why should I be stopped?
	
MAT	Is it accessible?  Can you get the chair on to it?
	
LIZ	I can boing up and down.
	
MAT	Because you’ve had your wheelchair pimped, haven’t you?
	
LIZ	Have I?
	
MAT	So you can do that thing like in LA…
	
LIZ	Are you saying I’m a prostitute?
	
MAT	No, I’m saying you’ve had Pimp My Wheelchair.
	
LIZ	Oh.
 	
MAT	So you can do that thing where they go up and down at the lights, like in LA, the gangs?
	
LIZ	I think having a water bottle on the side of my chair doesn’t exactly pimp it. 
	
MAT	We should pimp your wheelchair.
	
LIZ	We should one day. So that was it, excellent time I had, a lovely break. We should mention…

MAT	I was going to say, are we going to mention the you know what? [does fanfare]
	
LIZ	The chickens?
	
MAT	No, that would be [does fanfare in a chicken voice]
	
LIZ	OK, let’s mention the fact that yes, the Ouch Podcast has won two awards. 2007 was quite a year, to be honest.
	
MAT	Ladies and gentlemen, the Royal Television Society Innovation award goes to The Ouch Podcast team!
	
LIZ	Aaaaaah! And the BIMA, that is the British Interactive Media Award, goes to – The Ouch Podcast. Thank you very much.
	
MAT	And altogether, what’s so amazing about this ladies and gentlemen and anybody from the BBC who is listening – all from an uncomissioned programme. Pretty impressive for a bunch of disableds.
	
LIZ	Yes, so thank you. I just want to say really thank you everyone, all the listeners for all your support, for writing in, for listening to the Podcast, for keeping supporting it in 2007, I hope you still enjoy it in 2008. Send in your ideas and let’s see if we can make it even better, that would be fantastic. Talking about your support – emails. We’ve got a few emails. See the authentic rustling through the paper?
	
MAT	I loved it. It’s so businesslike; it’s like the Goon Show. Isn’t it, Mum?
	
LIZ	Thank you Joe from Minneapolis, thank you Met from – I don’t know, but you’re a female, 25…
	
MAT	Norway.
	
LIZ	“I love the Podcast, although I feel a bit naughty laughing at your jokes because I’m not really very disabled.”
	
MAT	Well I shall get Anita Skorgen to spank you for that. 
	
LIZ	If you were on a feeding tube and a ventilator then you could laugh heartily, so that’s good. Jess Russell from Doncaster: “I love it, brilliant programme” Well, thank you for saying that, only just discovered it. She said that she was going to do a piece for Home Truths with John Peel about the funny side of being in a wheelchair but sadly – he died before it was recorded. Does that mean we’re about to…?
	
MAT	No. We’re not; we will live forever, like Fame itself. 
	
LIZ	Yay. I’ve got legwarmers.
	
MAT	I’ve got one from Lauren in Massachusetts, USA. Quite interesting thing here, I’m just going to précis, Lauren, I hope you don’t mind, your really interesting email about basically: there was a child called Alexis, a girl, jumped in front of her mother and shielded her from the bullets that were being shot at her by her estranged boyfriend. They both survived but with serious injury. Lovely story, except that the CNN article notes that because she is learning disabled, doctors can’t say whether she acted intentionally or not. 
	
LIZ	Wow
	
MAT	Yeah I know, which is ridiculous, but as we know ladies and gentlemen, that’s how they tend to perceive us. I’ve got another one – can I do another one?
 	
LIZ	Oh please do.
	
MAT	Do you mind, it’s about the single. Lovely Arthur Battram, male.
	
LIZ	Great name.
	
MAT	Isn’t it? He said that my Christmas single, Cripples at Christmas, is brilliant and it has to be performed by him and four poofs on a piano on the Jonathon Ross show. Which is lovely of you to say so, but personally I’m not down with four gay men singing and calling themselves Four Poofs and a Piano. Just personal, but I’m not down with it so – don’t want to do that. Next?
	
LIZ	Four Crips and an Oboe would be all right though.
	
MAT	Ha! That’s hysterical. Let’s just call it four spastics. We’re saying it, so it’s all right.
	
LIZ	Ian Griffiths from South Wales, thank you for your very very very long and funny email. I particularly like it because it says “Hi Rob and Liz”. So, er, bless. Rob isn’t here this month by the way, but he’ll be back.
	
MAT	Where is Rob?
	
LIZ	Oh he’s probably somewhere around, jetting off in his albino ways, that he does.
	
MAT	Jet skiing in Brazil or wherever.
	
LIZ	Is that what he’s doing? Is that what he calls it now?
	
MAT	Yeah, jet skiing. 
	
LIZ	Now he’s got a date – I know. But I quite like this because one of the things Ian’s talking about – he did the top ten of things people say to him as a disabled person when he’s on the internet, but one of the things he talked about is he’s a bit of a soft drink junkie. Loves it, but apparently it’s bad for him, people are trying to get him to go on detox. He says “Don’t they think I suffer enough, to have to endure a radical hippy diet to lengthen my life? No. It’s my only vice.” I like that; he wants to be a man of vices. I appreciate that, Ian, thank you – keep drinking the fizzy stuff and know it does you bad. Can I just say...

MAT	Please do… why stop the habit of a lifetime, Liz? Go on.
	
LIZ	I think it’s really important actually Matthew.
 	
MAT	I want to know, and I was only joking about the habit of a lifetime, because you’ve obviously changed a lot of your habits lately. 
	
LIZ	People who’ve written in, and whose names we’ve mentioned, are going to get a Podcast mug.
	
MAT	Are they?
	
LIZ	And Ian, you can drink your bad fizzy stuff from it. Isn’t that nice?
	
MAT	Super. Listen, I think this is a good time to bring up our guest.
	
LIZ	Oh yes, she’s in here still. The chirpy one.
	
MAT	Because we’ve got a DVD and a book here. You know what – the face of the lovely lady opposite is the same face as on the DVD and the book. 
	
LIZ	Leanne’s Chair Workout. 
	
MAT	And “Just a Step”, an autobiography of Leanne Grose. 
	
LIZ	Out today.
	
LEANNE	Yes, out today.
	
LIZ	You’re an author!
	
LEANNE	Yes, I am, it makes me sound intelligent doesn’t it?
	
LIZ	No, you are, you’ve written a book. Hold on, we’ll tell you how intelligent she is. 
	
MAT	How intelligent is she?
	
LIZ	She’s that intelligent that she has a book…
	
LEANNE	I can spell my own name. 
	
LIZ	…with three hundred…
	
LEANNE	And sixty six, I believe?
	
LIZ	No, thirteen, three hundred and thirteen words.
	
LEANNE	See, I even got that wrong.
	
LIZ	Pages even. 
	
MAT	Three hundred and thirteen words? That’s a short book.
	
LIZ	It’s a paragraph.
	
MAT	Just for the listeners, because we’ve kind of just gone into you as if we know you or something, which we obviously don’t, what’s the book about, what’s the DVD about?
	
LEANNE	Well, the book is called “Just a Step”
	
MAT	Running out of time.
	
LEANNE	OK, oh the pressure, the pressure. The book, “Just a Step” is an autobiography, so it’s the rollercoaster that has been my life really, and it’s not a sob-story whatsoever; it’ll hopefully make you laugh, and cry. I’m a really lucky person; I’ve had a great life and got great family and friends. Yeah I lost my leg and that wasn’t so great, but...
	
MAT	Sorry to interrupt – it says on the back of the book here I notice that you were diagnosed with cancer and in 2003 underwent surgery to remove your leg?
	
LEANNE	Yeah, I had lots of operations to try and save the leg, obviously, but when it was time to come off I was just “yeah, let’s just get it off, I’d rather just be me than live with all this pain.”
	
LIZ	Just get on with your life, kind of thing.
	
LEANNE	Yeah, so once it was removed that was a good thing, but I’ve had so many amputations since I’m sure I’m just going to be a little head on a desk at this rate.
	
MAT	Have you had further operations then?
	
LEANNE	Yeah, I’ve had loads, I’ve had my knee off, and bit by bit, every time it’s come back they’ve had to remove a little bit more to keep me here.
	
MAT	OK. That’s the book.
	
LEANNE	Available at all good book stores.
	
MAT	Absolutely
	
LEANNE	Shameless plug already!
	
LIZ	That’s fine.
	
MAT	I’ve had a look at the pictures, there’s a lovely one of you and your dad in it.
	
LEANNE	Thank you. In my bikini, I might add.

MAT	I was looking at your dad in his shorts actually.
	
LIZ	What, your dad in your bikini?
	
MAT	You’re not the only one that can change, you know. Um…
	
LIZ	What?!
	
MAT	On Leanne’s Chair Workout, this DVD looks alarmingly healthy. What’s going on? Shall we get into our leotards, Liz?
	
LIZ	I’m already in mine, didn’t you notice?
	
MAT	Oh, so you are, sorry. Ready when you are.
	
LEANNE	Oh, well, I came up with Leanne’s Chair Workout because I’d put on a bit of weight. I used to be really skinny, and then lots of medication, lots of operations, lying in a bed and sitting in a wheelchair just put on a few pounds. Well, quite a few pounds actually. In the new year I though OK, new year, new me, went down to get one of these celebrity fitness DVDs, went into a very well known store and saw like 13 celebrity fitness DVDs, and there was nothing really that was specifically for someone like me. So I bought the top selling one, took it home and the first thing was star jumps, so that was obviously no good for me unless I fancied falling on the floor. I looked at what I could do and went from there. 
	
LIZ	We get a lot of people writing to Ouch and over the years they’ve written in wanting to know what people can do to keep fit. It’s quite an issue for disabled people, particularly wheelchair users complaining that they’re fat, that they can’t get the weight off. What advice have you got for people?
	
LEANNE	For me, it’s really simple, it’s focusing on not what you can’t do, but think about what you can. If you’ve got no legs, think about your arms, if you’ve got no arms think about your legs. Doing the DVD’s just been amazing – it was filmed at the Eden Project, which was – I’m Cornish, very proud to be Cornish, and it symbolised where I’m from. And it’s something great to look at as well, in the background, if you’re fed up of looking at me. 
	
LIZ	I think what would be good – because you listen to this and think our listeners out there – I want some ideas then. I’m not, I have to admit, not a big fitness person.
	
LEANNE	But you’re very trim.
	
LIZ	I’m just thin, that’s all. But too many years of physio make me a bit scared, I sort of see exercise as bad, physio, painful, but I know there’s a big difference in keeping fit. So I really don’t know what to do, there’s a lot of listeners out there as well who don’t know.

MAT	I think you’re right Liz.
	
LIZ	So, can you show us, can we have a bit of a go?
	
LEANNE	Of course we can. I actually didn’t come in my leotard today, I’m in a dress, but for me the DVD is all about having fun, and whether you’re overweight, elderly, amputee, illness, whatever.
	
LIZ	So it’s not just for disabled people?
	
LEANNE	It’s not just for disabled people. 
	
MAT	Just warming up here.
	
LEANNE	OK. It’s available at www.justastep.co.uk , the book and the DVD.
	
MAT	Ready when you are, going to cool down, don’t want to get a chill, let’s go.
	
LIZ	OK let’s go for it.
	
LEANNE	We’re going to start with some disco now, OK? So we’re going to get you moving, disco’s fun, and we’re going to do some old fashioned moves. So kind of the Travolta, where you’re putting your arm up and down. Do you remember those John Travolta days?
	
LIZ	Point to the sky and then down.
	
MAT	I know it looks like I’m seig-heliing 
	
LIZ	Pointing and down.
	
LEANNE	So we’re going to go four to the left. One, two, three, four, other side. One, two, three, four. And do you know the old Speedball?
	
LIZ	Fists circling around each other. And they’re going up and they’re coming down.
	
MAT	Fists are going up and now we’re going down.
	
LIZ	And they’re rolling around – stop it.
	
LEANNE	What kind of work out is this? It’s about working up a sweat and having fun.
	
LIZ	Leanne will you stay with us?
	
LEANNE	I’d love to, thank you.
	
LIZ	We’re going for a rest now. Thank you.

		
MAT	We received an email last month from listener Julia Bulware. She wrote: “For a future Ouch Podcast, could you interview Warwick Davis, or one of his co-stars from the movie Shortfellasthemovie.co.uk. I’m looking forward to seeing this movie, but it’ll probably be a long time until this side of the pond gets to see it. Love ya.”
	
LIZ	No sooner said than done. Welcome, Warwick Davis.
	
WARWICK	Hello.
	
LIZ	Hello Warwick.
	
WARWICK	Hi.
	
LIZ	Wow. People asked and we’ve got you here. We’re looking at all the films you’ve been in, Warwick, oh my god.
	
MAT	International listeners, just to say, Warwick Davis is certainly the most well-known short-statured actor in this country. He’s got an incredible filmography, some of which we have to read out because it’s just unbelievable, the things you’ve done, Warwick. Here we go. Basically, all the Harry Potter films. Small Town Folk. Extras. Comedy Lab. Snow White. Doctor Terrible’s House of Horribles. Scream.
	
LIZ	Narnia. Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.
	
MAT	All the Leprechaun films.
	
LIZ	Willow.
	
MAT	And rather impressively, Star Wars.
	
WARWICK	Yeah, yeah, I have been to that galaxy far far away.
	
LIZ	You have. I’m sure you’ve talked about it many times but how did you get to be in Star Wars?
	
MAT	How did it all start, Warwick?
	
WARWICK	Well I was really lucky, and it features I think in a lot of actors’ careers, certainly in my career, but luck plays a big part. My grandmother heard a radio commercial that played out in the London area, and in the commercial the producers of Star Wars were looking for short people to be in the Star Wars movie they were about to start shooting. She told my mum about this, who phoned up the studios in London, and at that point they said “We’ve got everyone we need, we’re full up.” They’d been inundated with calls. I don’t know what she said to them, but they said “All right, we’ll see Warwick then.” At this point I was only eleven years old, so I went up to the studio – obviously a massive Star Wars fan at that point, and they said “OK, you’ll be great. Go and get yourself measured up for a costume and we’ll see you in a few weeks.” And that was it.
	
LIZ	It was as easy as that. Wow. And so you hadn’t had any desire to particularly be an actor before then?
	
WARWICK	Well, like a lot of short people, I had a larger than life personality, I think to make up for my lack of inches at that point; you know, you have to get noticed so you tend to compensate.
	
LIZ	Bit of a show-off?
	
WARWICK	Yeah, and my personality lent itself to performing arts, so I did have a bit of an interest in that. I used to do shows at home and stuff with my sister, for my mum and dad, that sort of thing, so I was very much the showman. But to be given the opportunity to actually do it and have a wider audience and get paid as well was something that at eleven years old, I jumped at.
	
LIZ	You’re mid thirties now, and started at eleven, so pretty much showbiz and films have been your career, then.
	
WARWICK	That’s right. It’s one of those careers that you didn’t set out to choose, it just kind of found you. Before you know it, I’ve been doing it 25 years and thinking “oh wow, I guess I’m going to be an actor”.
 	
MAT	You are indeed an actor of incredible stature, and I don’t mean that in a funny, punny way. Obviously I feel awkward now, but hey. My usual interview style.
	
LIZ	Looking through your list, there’s something we couldn’t help noticing. We’ve read it over again and again: You weren’t in Lord of the Rings, Warwick.
	
WARWICK	I wasn’t, was I? No.
	
LIZ	Are you a bit not happy with that?
	
MAT	What’s going on there?
	
WARWICK	Well I did audition for the role of Gimley, which ultimately was the role that John Rhys-Davis got, but at the point where I went in they were actually looking to cast short actors in the roles instead of using computer trickery to shrink average sized actors. That’s kind of what happened there. John Rhys-Davis is convinced now that he’s going to be attacked by a mob of short people. 
	
MAT	Is it not though that basically you’re in one camp or the other, you’re either in Harry Potter or you’re in the Lord of the Rings? You’ve done all the Harry Potters, you fool. You were never going to get into Lord of the Rings!
	
WARWICK	Exactly, I couldn’t be greedy.
	
LIZ	Like Blur or Oasis, isn’t it?
	
WARWICK	And if I was in Lord of the Rings I wouldn’t have been able to do Harry Potter, because they were filming at the same time. 
	
MAT	If you’d had the choice which would it have been?
	
WARWICK	Harry Potter, of course.
	
LIZ	Of course, right answer.
	
MAT	Super. Now listen, it says here that when you were in Star Wars with Carrie Fisher at the age of eleven, she used to make sure that you had milk and cookies when you took your costume off. 
	
WARWICK	Well, the reason for that was when you come out of an Ewok costume, which is basically a fur suit, and underneath that you’re wearing a foam undersuit to give a sort of different shape to you, it’s very very hot, it’s like a personal sauna. So when you come out of one of those, you’re rather red and a bit flushed and I guess she thought that milk and cookies were the best way to revive me.
	
LIZ	And did she do your hair in little plaited buns as well?
	
WARWICK	No, she didn’t, I didn’t have long enough hair.
	
LIZ	Oh, I’m disappointed. That was an image I wanted to see Warwick, to be honest.
	
MAT	Now you’re currently in Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, and I’ve looked at your stage CV as well…
	
LIZ	In Wimbledon.
	
MAT	…at Wimbledon Theatre, for any locals. And you’ve done that show quite regularly throughout your career.
	
LIZ	How many times have you been in Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, Warwick?
	
WARWICK	I think it’s probably about 15 times.
	
MAT	And do you always play the same one?
	
WARWICK	I’m normally kind of the Doc character. I’ve done other pantos – I’ve done Peter Pan, and I’ve also done Aladdin as well. But Snow White is the old favourite. 
	
MAT	OK, I’ve been told that we’re not only allowed to plug your career, that we have to ask one integrity question. So I’m duty bound to ask this question. You know what’s coming now, Warwick; I’m sure you’ve answered this a million times before. Does the being looked at and having photographs and being patted on the head factor of living life as a short statured person, and the propagation of the Snow White and the Seven Dwarves playing have anything in common?
	
WARWICK	Ummm…
	
MAT	Shall I say that in English?
	
LIZ	I’m thinking ask a better question.
	
MAT	OK. Does being in Snow White and the Seven Dwarves stop people taking short-statured people seriously in the street? Or something like that. I want to know what your take on it is.
	
WARWICK	I know, and I’m kind of stalling to think about it. But I guess – I don’t think it does. I don’t think it does, because kids going into that theatre see characters there, they see a fairy tale coming to life. That’s what they see. So I don’t think they make a direct comparison really with seeing somebody short-statured walking along the street or in the supermarket. I don’t think they make that comparison. Television doesn’t do that for them and they see theatre very much like that. I’ve never had an adverse affect from it. I think that you’ve just got to be very careful what you end up doing on stage, in Snow White, but it’s not something that is so ridiculous that you’re laughed at. I feel that the audience is very much with us in the script that we do in this show, and I’m very conscious of where those distinctions are – between being laughed at and being laughed along with.
	
LIZ	Have you been criticised by other short people?
	
WARWICK	Within short people in this country and throughout the world, there area group that are in the entertainment industry, which I fall into, and there’s the group that decides that they didn’t want to go down that road and live their lives as normally as possible within society, which is their choice. I don’t feel that we’re overly criticised by them as a group either. I think it should be every man for themselves. I’ve certainly had no adverse affects from it. People stop me all the time in the street because I’m a recognisable figure, as opposed to just seeing somebody who’s short.
	
MAT	By way of contrast then, your current project that you’re trying to get off the ground – which is a movie called Shortfellas – now, we’ve got a clip from it, so shall we play the clip and then talk about it?
	
WARWICK	Let’s do that, yeah.
	
MAT	Great.

“This is a robbery. Do as we say, and no one will get hurt”

“Is this some kind of joke?”

“Will it be shown on the telly?”

“30 seconds – let’s go”

So, Warwick, what is it and where did the idea come from?
	
WARWICK	Shortfellas was brought to my attention about two years ago by an independent production company in Newcastle. John Stone wrote this wonderful screenplay and showed it to me and immediately I just loved the project. A lot of screenplays you read really are very hard to read – they don’t flow particularly well on the page – but this was so engaging and so much fun I thought I would just love to be part of it. But as with any movie, even the biggest Hollywood movies, they take a long time to develop and get to the stage where they’re being filmed. And so just over two years down the road the film is at the point where we have a trailer, which is the clip that you’ve just played there, and is available to view on the internet.
	
MAT	On what website, Warwick?
	
WARWICK	Shortfellasthemovie.com – you can go there and see the trailer in full.
	
LIZ	What’s the film about – what’s the synopsis?
	
WARWICK	It’s about…
	
MAT	Pitch it to me baby, you’ve got one minute.
	
WARWICK	I will – I’m pitchin’ it. My character is Charlie – he has a god-daughter who’s very very poorly and needs an operation, and the operation can be carried out in America which of course would be very expensive, and they don’t have the resources to fund this. So he takes it upon himself to band together a group of his mates, who all happen to be short, and rob a post office. So it’s kind of a Robin Hood scenario. But then the local villain by the name of Kim sees that they’re actually quite good at doing this, and blackmails them into doing a diamond robbery with him. It’s a comedy caper heist movie, but it’s got that very distinctive British comedy style. 
	
MAT	Sounds fun.
	
LIZ	Sounds great fun.
	
WARWICK	Yeah it is, it’s a lot of fun. 
	
LIZ	And when do you start filming, or are you still not sure when – have you got the money for it?
	
WARWICK	We’ve actually got two-thirds of the budget at present, a lot of companies interested and talking with the producers at the moment. I would hope that 2008 would see this film shot and released not long after that.
	
LIZ	You’ve had an amazing career, hopefully this film will come off and get the funding and we’ll see it in our cinemas in the next couple of years, that’ll be fantastic. What is the part you long to play, Warwick?
	
MAT	What’s the dream role?
	
WARWICK	I’d love to do comedy – I’d like to do something very real life. About a guy that just lives in a street, living life, and there’s nothing about the fact that he’s short, just that he’s living life and whatever the situation that he’s in involves. Do you know what I mean? 
	
LIZ	No fantasy or sci fi or whatever, just real life. 

WARWICK	Yeah, real life. I love all the fantasy and sci-fi genres, it’s given me most of my career to date, but it is rather nice to step in front of a camera with only five minutes’ worth of make-up on and a pair of trousers and a t-shirt.
	
MAT	Yeah. Funnily enough, we asked the famous short statured actor Peter Dinklage in America what his dream role was, and do you know what it was? He wanted to be in Snow White and the Seven Dwarves.
	
WARWICK	Haha! Are you serious?
	
MAT	No, but thanks for laughing so brilliantly, professionally and politely. It wasn’t even funny, but you laughed.
	
WARWICK	I just worked with Peter, so I know he wouldn’t have said that.
	
MAT	Oh! Oh, please can we extend the interview? I’m a massive fan – I mean, I love your work too Warwick, don’t get me wrong, but Peter Dinklage – what have you done with him?
	
WARWICK	I just worked on the Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian with him, I played Nikabrik and he played Trumpkin. That comes out in June I think, this year. 

LIZ	Thank you for making the time today. 
	
WARWICK	It’s a pleasure. 
	
MAT	Good luck with the panto and of course, Shortfellas. We can’t wait to see it. 
	
WARWICK	Thank you so much.

		
MAT	Now then listeners, earlier on I warned you that Liz has something tell us. Now please – strap yourselves in, get a hotty-water bottle, because I think Liz has got some rather shocking news. Ready? Here we go. Tell us Liz.
	
LIZ	I’m pregnant.
	
MAT	Ummm… er… with what?
	
LIZ	With sextuplets.
	
MAT	Oh my god.
	
LIZ	I know, and they’re all co-joined. So it’s going to be quite fantastical.
	
MAT	So is that three, or six? Is that twelve heads or six?
	
LIZ	Stop it.
	
MAT	Two? Three?
	
LIZ	No, ok, that’s not the news. I’m not really.
	
MAT	Oh, shall we start again? Don’t wind the listeners up. Listeners, stay strapped in, stay with your hotty-water bottle and your shock therapy because you’re going to need it. Liz – what’s the news? Oh god…
	
LIZ	It’s not that big now. I’m going away for a little while.

MAT	Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!! What?
	
LIZ	I know. Look how upset you are, and how joyless I am.
	
MAT	[wails] But where are you going?
	
LIZ	I’m going round the world. I’m wheeling around the world.
	
MAT	What, for charity?
	
LIZ	Single-handedly. For charidee.
	
MAT	Are you going to do a book?
	
LIZ	No, no I’m not. I’m not doing anything.
	
MAT	So what’s actually happening?
	
LIZ	OK, as of later this month, January, I’m going off for a few months around the world, just travelling, doing a bit of work, a bit of writing, bit of stuff, but just seeing the world. I’ve always wanted to do it, and I’ve saved up, and an opportunity’s arisen, and I’m really excited!
	
MAT	I bet you are. Now, are you going on your own, Liz?
	
LIZ	Um, obviously not, because I need personal assistance. I need someone to give me a hand.
	
MAT	Oh, that reminds me of a conversation we had a few Podcasts ago. 
	
LIZ	Shall we move on from that?
	
MAT	Where we were discussing about being able to have a care assistant’s relationship with your lover, Liz?
	
LIZ	Yeah, yeah. 
	
MAT	Are you going with your lover, Liz?
	
LIZ	Obviously, you remember we had that conversation before we went away somewhere, obviously it went quite well. So we thought a few months now.
	
MAT	Oh, now listeners, I don’t know whether you know, and I feel all warm about this, but, oh, oh god…
	
LIZ	No, stop it Mat.
	
MAT	Her name is Jo, OK. Let’s bring you out of the closet, dammit and into the public, because I think it’s beautiful. They met at the Ouch Podcast, listeners. And now they’re together. 
	
LIZ	This is so going to be edited.
	
MAT	No, it’s lovely. I’m so thrilled for you.
	
LIZ	Thank you, thank you very much.
	
MAT	I mean well done. Well done.
	
LIZ	Thank you. I’m very happy. Can you tell?
	
MAT	I can!
	
LIZ	I’m blossoming, aren’t I? Blossoming.
	
MAT	I haven’t had an email from you since, have I?
	
LIZ	Well no.
	
MAT	We used to have emails every day, didn’t we? Last one dated October, ladies and gentlemen.
	
LIZ	OK, well stop it; let me talk, because this is my last Podcast to talk. 
	
MAT	It’s all yours, but please, during your talk, tell us where you’re going. 
	
LIZ	Well that’s what I was about to do.
	
MAT	Because a lot of our listeners are going to go “But I live there! Will I meet Liz?”
	
LIZ	Well you see that’s it, because I do think when I’ve travelled before, it’s great if you can meet and get ideas from people who live in the area, particularly crips that live in an area. We’re starting in Hong Kong, then we’re going to Australia, particularly Sydney – for Mardi Gras, actually, very exciting.
 	
MAT	Oh wow! The biggest gay extravaganza festival in the world?
	
LIZ	Absolutely. 
	
MAT	God, you’ve really gone for it haven’t you?
	
LIZ	And then we’re going to New Zealand, and then we’re going to America for a couple of months. 
	
MAT	Wow.
	
LIZ	And Berkeley, hopefully, San Francisco.
 	
MAT	Berkeley, California – the most accessible city in the world?
	
LIZ	That’s the one – you’ve talked about it so much I have to go and see for myself. 
	
MAT	Berkeley listeners, did you hear that? Get a gig together for her. Make sure she has a good time – know what I mean, Bethany?
	
LIZ	And Chicago and New York.
	
MAT	Wow. You’re going to be so world wise when you come back.
	
LIZ	It’s the trip of a lifetime. I’m going to see the world. But what I would like to say, listeners, please, if you’re in any of those far flung places, I will be there, please do send ideas of what to do. Send me places. Because what I’m going to do hopefully while I’m away is link up – I’m still going to write for Ouch, and we’re hoping to have some sort of link up at some point in the few months while I’m away.
	
MAT	But Liz, I’ve just realised something.
	
LIZ	What?
	
MAT	Yes, we should definitely try and do some sort of ISDN – listeners, that’s a posh word for when you can do it from abroad – Podcast together, but what’s going to happen to the next Podcast?
	
LIZ	What about you?
	
MAT	Who am I going to do it with?
	
LIZ	You’ve got the fantastic Julie Fernandez.
	
MAT	What, for the next Podcast?
	
LIZ	For the next Podcast. You’re going to be working with guests.
	
MAT	Oh! It’s like when one of the TV interviewers leave and they get other people to do it, like the guest quizmaster of Have I Got News For You.
	
LIZ	It’s fine, you’re not going to be on your own.
	
MAT	Oh phew.
	
LIZ	Because obviously I’m the anchor here.
	
MAT	You can’t have chemistry with yourself.
	
LIZ	Well you can, but let’s not talk about that. 
	
MAT	You’re so kind.
	
LIZ	I know, I know. But no, there’s going to be different people.
	
MAT	So, Miss Fernandez eh?
	
LIZ	Miss Fernandez, we listened to her on the Christmas Podcast on the quiz, she was fantastic, she’s coming back.
	
MAT	OK.
	
LIZ	And also there’s going to be different people who are lining up, and they may be speaking to me now and again while we’re away as well. You’ll be fine. But do email in please, it’s ouch@bbc.co.uk if you’ve got any ideas of places I should go in Sydney, Auckland, San Francisco, New York – let me know, I’ll be coming your way. Very excited to see the world. 
	
MAT	My friends in those places, and you know who you are, you’d better email Liz, OK. I want you guys to hook up, I really do. Gosh, I wish you well, obviously, and I’m very happy for you, little bit nervous about doing the Podcast with other people. Mind you, you did it with Laurence while I was away.
	
LIZ	I did.
	
MAT	And was it OK?
	
LIZ	It’s OK. It’s not the same, it’s different of course, a bit weird, but you know what, now you miss me, in a few months it’ll be like Liz…?
	
MAT	Liz who?
	
LIZ	Liz… Liz? Who is she? You won’t, no. So don’t worry. I plan on being back. I’ll be back.
	
MAT	Will you send us like – Ouch website, Journeys With Liz? Letter from?
	
LIZ	I’m still going to write my column, so hopefully yeah. 

MAT	And there’ll be Letters From?
	
LIZ	I think there probably will be. I usually write about what’s going on in my life.
	
MAT	You’ll be travelling by air though, won’t you?
	
LIZ	I am. A lot of air – why? You look like you’ve got some sort of warning thing to tell me.
	
MAT	It’s just that – every time I’ve been on an aeroplane and there’s been a wheelchair user, it seemed like a bit of a hassle, to be honest. They have to go on first, and there’s always that ‘why is that person sitting… oh right, they’re probably a wheelchair user’ when you get on the plane, and they’re always the last to leave. On long haul flights – I often wonder, usually wheelchair users by the very nature of the wheelchair usage can’t walk – toilet becomes a huge issue – I can’t keep it in for 13 hours. 
	
LIZ	Well they do have those – I’m not saying these are fantastic because they’re evil, but they have those aisle seats, they’re narrow, they look like kind of little bent up chairs they lift you into an ambulance with.
	
MAT	Technically let’s face it, you’re not the fattest person in the whole wide world, you probably would fit into one. 
	
LIZ	But how do you get into the toilet?
	
MAT	I don’t know. Do they just tip you out of the chair with the door open?
	
LIZ	It’s not pleasant.
	
MAT	No. Golly.
	
LIZ	It is better to not need to go.
	
MAT	Do you have any – like – aids – like dressing aids?
	
LIZ	Do you know what, I’m an electric wheelchair user and I take anything that could be lost off the chair. The controls, the battery, everything.
	
MAT	So where do they all go, into your baggage?
	
LIZ	Into the hand luggage.
	
MAT	Not now it doesn’t.
	
LIZ	Really?
	
MAT	Not allowed.
	
LIZ	No, but if you do it at the last minute – you take the chair as far as you can, so you’ve got through security
	
MAT	Are you listening, listeners? This is a good tip.
	
LIZ	Right, so don’t do it when you’re checking in, but go right through, have an extra bag – buy something in duty free, it’s an excuse, then if you manage to take the chair to the door of the plane, take all the accoutrements, all the bits, the controls, the joystick, your footplates, anything they’re going to lose – cushion…
	
MAT	The flight’s delayed by about an hour and a half, so far.
	
LIZ	Yep.
	
MAT	Certainly if it’s going from Heathrow.
	
LIZ	Who cares? And take them all on with you. And usually they’re just so glad to get you on that they usually don’t ask any questions.
	
MAT	Just as a word of warning, my friend Carly Wilde from Sydney has been at Quantas – she’s like me, a short armed person, and uses a dressing stick – which they told her was a potential terrorist item and couldn’t be used. And they suggested she brought a dress with no underwear. How’s that for a suggestion? She’s since been to the discussion table, they’ve taken on all her terms…
	
LIZ	So do you use it – no wait, Mat. So, a dressing stick, she uses it to put tops on and pull knickers up and that?
	
MAT	Pull knickers up and trousers down.
	
LIZ	So they’re saying don’t wear knickers?
	
MAT	Their solution for it is don’t wear any underwear.
	
LIZ	Do a Sharon Stone.
	
MAT	Yeah. Exactly. Do a Shazzer. But there is serious thing here because I know that some blind peoples’ canes have also been – I mean come on guys, how many international terrorists do you know that are extremely disabled? Actually…quite a few.
	
LIZ	Actually, there was that…
	
MAT	Don’t start that. Don’t. I’m not a Daily Mail reader; I don’t want to hear it, thank you.
	
LIZ	A friend of mine was telling me that they booked to go on a flight, and they’d been told to sit in a certain place, they have to sit near the front of the plane, but they can’t sit near the doors.
	
MAT	No no, we’re not allowed to sit by the doors.
	
LIZ	No because we can’t open the doors in an emergency.
	
MAT	What would the other passengers feel if they saw a man with short arms at the door? I got told that once.
	
LIZ	Have you been told that?
	
MAT	I wanted extra legroom.
	
LIZ	I think that’d be very funny. Often we need the seats – the bulkhead I think they call them.
	
MAT	She knows all the terms.
	
LIZ	And she was told that she had to sit in this particular seat. OK, that’s great, but you’re going to have to book the seat if you want to sit there. Well I don’t want to sit there, you’re telling me I have to sit there. No, you have to book, and you have to pay a booking fee to sit in the seat we’re telling you.

MAT	Cher-ching.
	
LIZ	And then it’s like, OK, you’re going to have to give me a hand to eat, because I normally need a hand by my partner to help me eat. Then you’ll have to pay for them to sit next to you, because we’ll be very busy on the flight, you know, so you’ll have to pay for your partner to sit next to you and they’ll have to pay to book a seat too. It’s bonkers.
	
MAT	And I daren’t even mention the recent development in America, whereby they require all ten fingerprints for entry into America. Look at my fingers. 
	
LIZ	That is quite funny.
	
MAT	It’s funny for you, because you are very very hateful of Thalidomide, as I’ve noticed. What are we going to do?
	
LIZ	Only 134.
	
MAT	She knows my catalogue number. What are you, some kind of weird, hateful stalker? It’s not funny! Listen, international aviation companies alert disabled people, very unlikely to be terrorists, yes we might be and yes we should go through the same stringent checks as everyone else.
	
LIZ	Equal opportunity for terrorists, know what I mean? Why can’t we be?
	
MAT	But hold on a minute, I personally know several people who don’t have the full ten fingers. What are they going to do – are we going to be in a holding bay? Send us to Guantanemo Bay, why don’t you? Mind you, I tell you what, those orange suits that they wear.
	
LIZ	It’s like residential care.
	
MAT	Yeah, it would be. Haha. The ultimate residential care – Guantanamo Bay.
	
LIZ	Guantanamo Home. You know when it’s really cold for you next month when you’re doing the next Podcast?
	
MAT	Yes, where will you be Liz?
	
LIZ	Oh, I think I’ll be down under in Australia and I think it’s going to be about thirty degrees. I just say that now to say – er – bye.

	
MAT	And we’re back with Leanne Grose in the studio.
	
LIZ	Leanne’s chair workout. Why should we be doing a chair workout?
	
LEANNE	It’s going to make you feel better, it’s going to make you feel more motivated, it’s going to get you going, not just losing weight, not just looking better, it’s just going to make you feel more enthusiastic and fitter.
	
LIZ	Get your heart going?
	
LEANNE	Yeah, get your heart rate up and as I say, concentrating on what you can do, not what you can’t. 
	
MAT	OK, well we have our lovely assistant producer Vaughan Simons with us in the studio, aforementioned fresher amputee. We’d like to test this exercise theory on Vaughan. Is that alright with you, Vaughan?
	
VAUGHAN	That’s fine.
	
LEANNE	Are you ready Vaughan?
	
VAUGHAN	I am.
	
MAT	We’ll just be on the sidelines, don’t worry about us, just ignore us.
	
VAUGHAN	OK.
	
LEANNE	Now obviously we don’t need to use our legs but it’s good to keep on bouncing, good to keep on moving and keep that heart rate in, so I’m just going to ask you to use your arms, OK?
	
VAUGHAN	OK.
	
LEANNE	So we’re going to stretch to our right, reaching up to the ceiling as far as we can – look at those amazing bodies!
	
LIZ	I can reach my ear.
	
LEANNE	And then we’re going to stretch the other side, as far as you can reach.
	
LIZ	Left arm up, up to the ceiling. 
	
MAT	Ow.
	
LIZ	Up to the ceiling, sort of bending a little bit over, and then we’re going to stretch forward.
	
MAT	You all right, Vaughan?
	
VAUGHAN	Yes, muscles I’ve never felt before.
	
LIZ	Stretching. It’s a sight in here, we’re all stretching forward.
	
LEANNE	And hopefully that’s going to tone your sides then and tone your tummy.
	
MAT	You’re visibly more toned, Vaughan.
	
LEANNE	By the end of that DVD you’ll be working up a sweat, I can guarantee you.
	
MAT	Thing is it’s the endorphins, isn’t it?
	
LEANNE	Yes. I’m all about endorphins.
	
MAT	20 minutes of exercise flushes your body with endorphins for up to two hours, which gives you a sense of wellbeing. 
	
LEANNE	There’s sixty minutes on there so how many endorphins is that? A lot.
	
MAT	A lot.
	
LIZ	Vaughan, does this appeal to you – have you done any exercise?
	
VAUGHAN	Obviously when I was doing physio when I first lost my leg, I learned quite a few exercises, and I have continued those at home. I’ve bought myself weights, which I’ve never done.
 	
LIZ	And when did this happen?
	
VAUGHAN	I lost my leg in June last year, and I was doing physio in hospital, and I came home in November before I went off to walking school. I did exercises at home – I was up to six kilogram weights. I was very impressed with myself.
	
LEANNE	Arnie eat your heart out.
	
VAUGHAN	Yeah, I know.
	
MAT	Wow.
	
LIZ	What I liked about the workout – because I did watch it, I watched it from the sofa with a box of chocolates.
	
LEANNE	Your fingers had a work out on the remote?
	
LIZ	Yeah. It was my exercise over Christmas so that’s good. The DVD was quite strenuous; I actually had to reach forward to press the button. I like the way you made it very accessible and very real. When you were talking about using weights or doing anything resistant, it was like ‘you can fill bottles of water or you can use cans’.
	
LEANNE	It’s not draining you of your money to go out and buy some of these fancy products that are out at JJB and all these different sports stores.
	
MAT	We do have Vaughan here who’s a reasonably fresh amputee, and you’re more seasoned, monopedal wise.
	
LEANNE	What are we talking about here?
	
MAT	Is there any advice you’d like to give Vaughan? Also some of the listeners may be coming up to an amputation, or just got over an amputation or whatever, I think it’s just quite nice if you have any advice that you can give Vaughan.
	
LEANNE	Well, for me – Vaughan, I actually think is amazing because he wears a false leg, and I’ve never been able to wear a false leg. I’m going around London, backpack and crutches. And I do wear a ridiculously high hell as well, so you can take my leg, you can’t take my heel from me! But I would just say be totally comfortable with yourself. And balance is a big thing as well, practising around the home, and if you are going to fall over, fall over in between the settee and on a soft carpet and get that balance right and then you’re sailing.
	
VAUGHAN	I’ve done a lot of practising of getting up from falling over. Sometimes actually by falling over. But sometimes just practising at home.
	
MAT	[whispers] Liz, Liz. This is really moving, don’t you think?
	
LIZ	Haha! We’re going to change your life now; you’ve changed ours with the power of exercise.
	
LEANNE	OK. I’m ready.
	
LIZ	Now we’re going to treat you to an excellent round of the excellent game we have here, Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable. Are you ready?
	
MAT	Ah, superb.
	
LEANNE	I’m ready.
	
LIZ	I’m excited this month. Are you ready?
	
MAT	We’re going to have another excellent round of the disability quiz that no one tires of. 
	
LIZ	I think so. We get a disabled caller on the line every month and by asking them questions they can only answer yes or no to we work out what’s wrong with them.
	
MAT	Always read the label. So who have we got on the line today? My notes tell me it’s a Mr John Gallagher. Hello John?
	
JOHN	Hello Mat, hello Liz.
	
LIZ	Hello, hello, thank you. We have had the most extraordinary email from you.
	
MAT	It is. It’s incredible.
	
LIZ	Yes. I’d like to say, the producer did scrub out what’s wrong with you, so we don’t know yet, we’re going to find that out. Picked off a few things that you say: you once hopped all the way to the shop, asked for some deep fried gerbils and hopped back?
	
JOHN	True story. Yes.
	
LIZ	True story. Why?
	
JOHN	Because I could.
	
LIZ	Because you could. OK! We’ve been talking a lot about amputees, and people who have one leg. Have you got one leg?
	
MAT	Hey hey hey hey, stop. You’re not allowed to – John, do not answer that question. 
	
LIZ	Boooo.
	
MAT	Save it for the quiz. Now listen. I just want to go straight for the interesting bit that I’m seeing. 
	
LIZ	The gerbils wasn’t the interesting bit?
	
MAT	It says here – it was, but as a vegetarian, I’d like to pass over the deep fried nature of your jesting. “I’m a virgin,” it says. “I’ve gone on one date, and I’ve never been kissed.” John oh John oh John. What’s going on?
	
JOHN	Well, I’m horrendously ugly, so that’s that really. No, it’s just – 31, little bit of a late developer maybe.
	
MAT	Have you just achieved puberty then, is that what you’re saying?
	
JOHN	Ah, well…
	
LIZ	Don’t be asking medical questions, no.
	
MAT	Ohhhh, social model!
	
LIZ	Leanne, you went “Awww!” Any advice for John here, then?
	
LEANNE	Get yourself out there, you’ve got a lovely voice as well. You sound really nice, so get yourself on Facebook and MySpace and these types of things.
	
LIZ	You’re a funny guy.
	
MAT	Is there an Ugly Facebook?
 	
LEANNE	Or, those people who have pictures of Tom Cruise and stuff, that stick on their profile, then they’ll get to love you by talking to you and emailing you, and you’ll meet them and they’ll already have loved you. It doesn’t matter what you look like.
	
LIZ	We lie until they love us, Leanne, that’s what you’re saying.
	
LEANNE	Yes, we lie.
	
MAT	Is this the thrust of your book? 
	
JOHN	Maybe that’s my problem; maybe I’ve been too truthful about myself.
	
MAT	John, you can never be too truthful about yourself and what I’d like to suggest is that you post – Vaughan, is it OK if John sends us a picture and we put it up on the website? You never know your luck mate. 
	
LEANNE	I want to see John, you sound lovely.
	
LIZ	People have got together through Ouch, you know. Readers.
	
MAT	And they’ve been horrifically ugly.
	
LIZ	Really, absolutely. You can’t be any worse than Mat.
	
LEANNE	I think Mat’s quite nice looking actually.
	
LIZ	Oh don’t, oh no.
	
MAT	Yes. See Liz, she likes me better than you. Ha ha, one nil.
	
LIZ	Do you see how I care?
	
MAT	No. We’re very jokey today. I’ll get a job on commercial radio soon.
	
LIZ	OK, so the rules, have you heard these, Leanne?
	
LEANNE	No.
	
LIZ	OK John, are you ready?
	
JOHN	I’m ready.
	
LIZ	Vegetable, Vegetable or Vegetable is a clever disability interpretation of the parlour game Animal, Vegetable or Mineral. In the game the two hosts of the Ouch Podcast have 90 seconds to guess what is wrong with the disabled caller on the line by asking a series of fiendishly intelligent questions. The caller must only answer yes or no. It is both classic and therapeutic.
	
MAT	To take part in this intrusive and unpleasant game, the rules clearly state you must be disabled. John, are you disabled?
	
JOHN	I am, Mat.
	
MAT	90 seconds on the clock then – Leanne, don’t forget you can ask him some questions too. Your time starts now.
	
LIZ	Are you an amputee?
	
JOHN	No.
	
LEANNE	Do you use a wheelchair at all?
	
JOHN	No I certainly don’t. 
	
LIZ	Do you have Asperger’s?
	
JOHN	I don’t.
	
MAT	Are you learning disabled?
	
JOHN	No.
	
LIZ	Are you on the autistic spectrum?
	
JOHN	I’m not. 
	
MAT	Are you on the artistic spectrum?
	
JOHN	I am actually artistic, yes.
	
LEANNE	Do you use crutches or a frame or anything?
	
JOHN	I don’t, no.
	
MAT	Do you require assistance to wash?
	
JOHN	No.
	
LIZ	Do you have anyone who assists you to do anything you can’t do yourself?
	
JOHN	No.
	
LIZ	Do you have ears?
	
JOHN	Yes I do – do you have ears?
	
LEANNE	Are you quite active?
	
JOHN	Reasonably, yes.
	
MAT	Do you have the use of both thumbs?
	
JOHN	Yes I have.
	
LIZ	Would you like to do Leanne’s chair workout?
	
JOHN	I would.
	
LIZ	Would you be able to do it with all your limbs?
	
JOHN	Yes I would.
	
LIZ	Would it be dangerous for you to do it, for your heart?
	
JOHN	No.
	
MAT	How about your liver?
	
JOHN	No.
	
MAT	Kidneys?
	
LIZ	Have you got all the main food groups and body parts?
	
JOHN	Food groups?
	
LIZ	Yeah, you know, you’ve got a heart and lungs and all that?
	
MAT	Come on, let’s hurry up. We’re not getting anywhere.
	
LEANNE	Are you missing anything? Apart from a girlfriend?
	
JOHN	Apart from my sanity? No.
	
LIZ	A girlfriend? You had to rub that in, Leanne.
	
LEANNE	No, it was said with love.
	
MAT	Did you say apart from your phallusy?
	
LIZ	Sanity.
	
MAT	Oh, I thought we’d clicked it there.
	
LIZ	Do you have hirsuitism, body hair? Bad body hair problem?
	
JOHN	No no no.
	
LIZ	You look like Cousin It, or whatever.
 	
JOHN	No.
	
LIZ	Are you a vampire?
	
JOHN	No, I’m not a vampire.
	
MAT	Oh no, it’s the clock! Zombie?
	
LEANNE	I haven’t got a clue.
	
MAT	You’re meant to help us!
	
LIZ	We’re so good at this.
	
LEANNE	I haven’t got a clue. He seemed obvious, didn’t he?
	
MAT	Oh, OK.
	
LEANNE	Oh, I’m sorry John.
	
LIZ	OK, John, it’s time for you to tell us what is wrong with you and put us out of our misery, please.
	
JOHN	I have very very bad eczema. 
	
LEANNE	Why do you need to hop?
	
JOHN	I don’t need to hop.
	
LEANNE	Ah, you’re just doing that for fun.
	
MAT	So bits of it fall off on the way to the shop?
	
JOHN	My leg didn’t fall off, no.
	
LIZ	Are you like The Singing Detective?
	
JOHN	The Singing Detective?
	
LIZ	He had bad eczema.
	
MAT	You know – time for my rub-down, Nurse.
	
JOHN	What?
	
MAT	Did you not see The Singing Detective?
	
LEANNE	I don’t remember that.
	
LIZ	I once went to a fancy dress party, and someone went as The Singing Detective, and they used ketchup to put cornflakes onto their face. 
	
MAT	Liz, I think that’s a little insensitive considering who’s listening!
	
LIZ	Well no, I’m just saying, if you want to disguise yourself John, there’s an option.
	
MAT	Spend your life going to fancy dress parties as The Singing Detective? That’s not much of a life – he’s not going to lose his virginity that way, is he?
	
LIZ	Bran flakes? Rice Krisipes?
	
JOHN	Or I could dress up like Alan Partridge, as a zombie. Do you remember the episode?
	
MAT	Oh yes, that was a good one. Listen John, when people find out that you’ve got really really bad eczema, what questions do they ask?
	
JOHN	It makes me really really laugh because usually they just say “Ooh, I’ve got some eczema as well, look! Just between my two fingers there,” and I’m like “Yeah, imagine that all over your body.” And they’re like “Oh yes, it itches a bit.” And I’m like “Yeah, it does itch a bit, that’s why it’s not particularly great.”
	
MAT	So you get asked stupid questions in other words. 
	
LEANNE	Welcome to our world.
	
MAT	Yes indeed.
	
LIZ	John, thank you for your email and thank you so much for taking part. 
	
LEANNE	Good luck John.
	
LIZ	And if you feel brave, send us a pic.
	
MAT	And you never know your luck; you might be inundated with calls.
	
JOHN	Yes, I might well be.
	
LIZ	And don’t forget, tomato sauce and cornflakes.
	
LEANNE	I’ll try that when I get home.
	
MAT	She’s cruel.
	
LIZ	John, happy new year, you take care.
	
JOHN	Thank you, bye bye.
	
LIZ	And it’s going to be bye to Leanne. I want to ask you one thing. Tomorrow, I’m going ice skating again. I’m going wheelchair ice skating, really excited. Did it last year for the first time. Now before you go we need to know – you’ve got a world record attempt coming up.
 	
LEANNE	I have. It’s on the 19 January at the Eden Project in Cornwall, in the UK, at ten o’clock. Entry is free to anyone who joins, anyone who wants to sit on a wheelchair and be on the ice.
 	
MAT	So they don’t have to be a wheelchair user?
	
LEANNE	You don’t have to be a wheelchair user.
	
MAT	Oh so it’s like wheelchair basketball, then, in that respect?
	
LEANNE	Yes. Come along, you and your carer, or a friend gets in for free and you can find out all the details on www.justastep.co.uk where you can enter and send all your details. 
	
LIZ	Perfect.
	
MAT	Anyone who hasn’t experienced wheelchair ice skating really should avail themselves of that experience at the earliest available opportunity.
	
LIZ	That’s going to be fantastic.
	
LEANNE	It’s amazing.
	
MAT	It’s like speedway or something. So exciting.
	
LIZ	How many people are you expecting?
	
LEANNE	Hopefully we’ll get a few hundred there, so it’s going to be brilliant.
	
LIZ	Few hundred wheelchair users on ice.
	
LEANNE	And see lots of children.
	
LIZ	Leanne, we have to say goodbye.
	
MAT	Yeah, thanks so much.
	
LEANNE	Bye.
	
LIZ	Bye, and good luck with all adventures.

 	
LIZ	That’s my last one for the time being, Mat.
	
MAT	Yeah.
	
LIZ	Yeah. I’ll be back in the summer.
	
MAT	Well let’s hope so.
	
LIZ	Hope so, yeah.
	
MAT	But for now, we should thank the production team. Mr Damon Rose, Emma Tracey, Vaughan Simons and Jo Hutton. I’ll be back next month with a new co-host – Julie Fernandez I guess. 
	
LIZ	We’re playing out with music from the stables of learning disability performance company Heart and Soul.
	
MAT	Dean Rodney, my man, is 18 years old and he works with the Heart and Soul club posse. He currently fronts a band called The Fish Police. Ladies and Gentlemen, give it up and get down for MC Dean – He Likes The Girls.
	
MC DEAN	
[rap music]
That’s right.
He likes the girls
He likes the girls
He likes the girls
He likes the girls
That’s right
He likes the girls
He likes the girls
He likes the girls
He likes the girls

I saw the girl dancing, I was the DJ
I saw a girl that was ten feet tall
She’s in my film, that’s right.
She’s in my movie, that’s right.

He likes the girls
He likes the girls
He likes the girls
He likes the girls
He likes the girls
He likes the girls
He likes the girls
He likes the girls

Lady star, electric shock
That girl was so beautiful
Yeah, she is, yeah.
Watching on the TV tonight, seen the girls
Yeah – terrific.

He likes the girls - yeah
He likes the girls - that’s right.
He likes the girls 
He likes the girls - yeah
He likes the girls – that’s right.
He likes the girls
He likes the girls
He likes the girls

We’re driving in the car 
Too fast, too furious, yeah. 
We’re driving in my car
Too fast, too furious.
We’re driving in the car 
Too fast, too furious, yeah. 

He likes the girls
He likes the girls
He likes the girls - yeah
He likes the girls
He likes the girls – oh yeah, I like the girls, you know
He likes the girls
He likes the girls – yeah.
He likes the girls